Difference between revisions of "Community Portal"
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This is the primary discussion forum for the CS Wiki. Decisions made by the editors here on the Wiki will be posted here, as well as links to on-going discussions. Please be sure to use Signatures and Indentation appropriately in discussions - if you are unsure of proper style, please see our [[Help: Welcome to Wiki Syntax|Welcome to Wiki Syntax]] guide. | This is the primary discussion forum for the CS Wiki. Decisions made by the editors here on the Wiki will be posted here, as well as links to on-going discussions. Please be sure to use Signatures and Indentation appropriately in discussions - if you are unsure of proper style, please see our [[Help: Welcome to Wiki Syntax|Welcome to Wiki Syntax]] guide. '''This is not the place to ask general mod related questions, those belong on the {{forums}}.''' | ||
<div style="float: right; margin-left: 1em;"> | <div style="float: right; margin-left: 1em;"> | ||
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Active Discussions | Active Discussions | ||
* [[Community Portal/General Cohesion Initiative|General Cohesion Initiative]] | * [[Community Portal/General Cohesion Initiative|General Cohesion Initiative]] | ||
* [[Community Portal/User Defined Functions|User Defined Functions]] | |||
Old Discussions | Old Discussions | ||
{| style="border:0;" | {| style="border:0;" | ||
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|<ul><li>[[Community Portal/AFD and Redirects|AFD and Redirects]]</ul> | |<ul><li>[[Community Portal/AFD and Redirects|AFD and Redirects]]</ul> | ||
|<ul><li>[[Community Portal/Second Revitalization|Second Revitalization]]</ul> | |<ul><li>[[Community Portal/Second Revitalization|Second Revitalization]]</ul> | ||
|- | |||
|<ul><li>[[Community Portal/Magic Function Subcategorization|Magic Function Subcategorization]]</ul> | |||
|<ul><li>[[Community Portal/User CSS Enabled|User CSS Enabled]]</ul> | |||
|- | |||
|<ul><li>[[Community Portal/Questions on (advanced?) wiki syntax|Questions on (advanced?) wiki syntax]]</ul> | |||
|<ul><li>[[Community Portal/Function Info Template category|Function Info Template category]]</ul> | |||
|- | |||
|<ul><li>[[Community Portal/Search Changes?|Search Changes?]]</ul> | |||
|<ul><li>[[Community Portal/Redirects & Nominated Articles|Redirects & Nominated Articles]]</ul> | |||
|- | |||
|<ul><li>[[Community Portal/New Utility Mod - Should I put the docs here?|New Utility Mod - Should I put the docs here?]]</ul> | |||
|<ul><li>[[Community Portal/script editor wiki links|Script editor wiki links]]</ul> | |||
|- | |||
|<ul><li>[[Community Portal/That Spam Bot|That Spam Bot]]</ul> | |||
|} | |} | ||
</div> | </div> | ||
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<div style="clear:both;"></div> | <div style="clear:both;"></div> | ||
== Finally Fixed the Project:Copyrights Link == | == Finally Fixed the Project:Copyrights Link == | ||
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The [[Project:Copyrights]] link on the Edit page is '''finally''' fixed, as a side-effect of fixing the project namespace. Very happy to see that. I went through and moved all the old project pages that I could find over to the new namespace, and I added a few more links. Very good stuff.<br /> | The [[Project:Copyrights]] link on the Edit page is '''finally''' fixed, as a side-effect of fixing the project namespace. Very happy to see that. I went through and moved all the old project pages that I could find over to the new namespace, and I added a few more links. Very good stuff.<br /> | ||
[[User:DragoonWraith|<span style="font-family: Oblivion, Daedric Runes; size=2;">D</span>ragoon <span style="font-family: Oblivion, Daedric Runes; size=2;">W</span>raith]] [[User_talk:DragoonWraith|<span style="font-family: Oblivion, Daedric Runes; size=2;">TALK</span>]] 01:51, 10 June 2008 (EDT) | [[User:DragoonWraith|<span style="font-family: Oblivion, Daedric Runes; size=2;">D</span>ragoon <span style="font-family: Oblivion, Daedric Runes; size=2;">W</span>raith]] [[User_talk:DragoonWraith|<span style="font-family: Oblivion, Daedric Runes; size=2;">TALK</span>]] 01:51, 10 June 2008 (EDT) | ||
== Architecture Changes == | == Architecture Changes == | ||
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::::::Will ask. | ::::::Will ask. | ||
::::::[[User:DragoonWraith|<span style="font-family: Oblivion, Daedric Runes; size=2;">D</span>ragoon <span style="font-family: Oblivion, Daedric Runes; size=2;">W</span>raith]] [[User_talk:DragoonWraith|<span style="font-family: Oblivion, Daedric Runes; size=2;">TALK</span>]] 09:40, 4 June 2008 (EDT) | ::::::[[User:DragoonWraith|<span style="font-family: Oblivion, Daedric Runes; size=2;">D</span>ragoon <span style="font-family: Oblivion, Daedric Runes; size=2;">W</span>raith]] [[User_talk:DragoonWraith|<span style="font-family: Oblivion, Daedric Runes; size=2;">TALK</span>]] 09:40, 4 June 2008 (EDT) | ||
== Cleaned up Hosted Images == | == Cleaned up Hosted Images == | ||
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Just went through the image log, added <nowiki>{{afd}}</nowiki> to the ones that have no business on the Wiki. Leaving a note here so that if anyone decides to do so again at a future date, they know they only have to go through the ones after this date.<br /> | Just went through the image log, added <nowiki>{{afd}}</nowiki> to the ones that have no business on the Wiki. Leaving a note here so that if anyone decides to do so again at a future date, they know they only have to go through the ones after this date.<br /> | ||
[[User:DragoonWraith|<span style="font-family: Oblivion, Daedric Runes; size=2;">D</span>ragoon <span style="font-family: Oblivion, Daedric Runes; size=2;">W</span>raith]] [[User_talk:DragoonWraith|<span style="font-family: Oblivion, Daedric Runes; size=2;">TALK</span>]] 08:19, 6 April 2008 (EDT) | [[User:DragoonWraith|<span style="font-family: Oblivion, Daedric Runes; size=2;">D</span>ragoon <span style="font-family: Oblivion, Daedric Runes; size=2;">W</span>raith]] [[User_talk:DragoonWraith|<span style="font-family: Oblivion, Daedric Runes; size=2;">TALK</span>]] 08:19, 6 April 2008 (EDT) | ||
== Toolbox for Tutorials == | == Toolbox for Tutorials == | ||
I think it would be a good idea to add a toolbox on tutorial pages with the tools used in that tutorial. That way we can standardize all the "Tools Needed" and "Requirements" sections in each tutorial. On the Wiki pages of the tools we can add some installation instructions, trial programs and alternatives. Next to the TOC would be a good spot, it's only a list with links so there's not a lot of space required. Here's an example of what I mean: | I think it would be a good idea to add a toolbox on tutorial pages with the tools used in that tutorial. That way we can standardize all the "Tools Needed" and "Requirements" sections in each tutorial. On the Wiki pages of the tools we can add some installation instructions, trial programs and alternatives. Next to the TOC would be a good spot, it's only a list with links so there's not a lot of space required. Here's an example of what I mean: | ||
<!-- a lot of wiki markup doesn't seem to work inside a div with toc class --> | <!-- a lot of wiki markup doesn't seem to work inside a div with toc class --> | ||
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:Very good idea - I wonder if we should do a similar bit for the scripting tutorials and list all of the "See Also", functions used, [[:Category:Standardized_Snippets|Standardized Snippets]], and articles up top?--[[User:Haama|Haama]] 11:41, 15 March 2008 (EDT) | :Very good idea - I wonder if we should do a similar bit for the scripting tutorials and list all of the "See Also", functions used, [[:Category:Standardized_Snippets|Standardized Snippets]], and articles up top?--[[User:Haama|Haama]] 11:41, 15 March 2008 (EDT) | ||
:Brilliant idea, as I hate when tutorials suddenly say: now open this program, A program I don't have, it's too far into the tutorial for me to stop! | |||
anyway I'd love to help you add them! | |||
--[[User:Oblivious12123|Oblivious12123]] 07:36, 29 December 2009 (EST) | |||
== New Administration Noticeboard == | == New Administration Noticeboard == | ||
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Sheriff action requests and requests of Bethesda should now go [[Help:Administration Noticeboard|here]].<br /> | Sheriff action requests and requests of Bethesda should now go [[Help:Administration Noticeboard|here]].<br /> | ||
[[User:DragoonWraith|<span style="font-family: Oblivion, Daedric Runes; size=2;">D</span>ragoon <span style="font-family: Oblivion, Daedric Runes; size=2;">W</span>raith]] [[User_talk:DragoonWraith|<span style="font-family: Oblivion, Daedric Runes; size=2;">TALK</span>]] 11:56, 7 March 2008 (EST) | [[User:DragoonWraith|<span style="font-family: Oblivion, Daedric Runes; size=2;">D</span>ragoon <span style="font-family: Oblivion, Daedric Runes; size=2;">W</span>raith]] [[User_talk:DragoonWraith|<span style="font-family: Oblivion, Daedric Runes; size=2;">TALK</span>]] 11:56, 7 March 2008 (EST) | ||
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:There are some functions that need a tutorial/overhead explanation (i.e., Messagebox Tutorial). From the ESF thread, the GetNthActive... functions need one. Looping apparently needs a better one? And from another thread the Input functions need one (though, apparently, it will be moot by v15 :) ).--[[User:Haama|Haama]] 11:01, 7 March 2008 (EST) | :There are some functions that need a tutorial/overhead explanation (i.e., Messagebox Tutorial). From the ESF thread, the GetNthActive... functions need one. Looping apparently needs a better one? And from another thread the Input functions need one (though, apparently, it will be moot by v15 :) ).--[[User:Haama|Haama]] 11:01, 7 March 2008 (EST) | ||
== Functions in scripts category/pages == | |||
= | |||
There's a category (set of pages?) that lists the vanilla scripts with certain functions. I imagine that all of these were determined with v1.0 and there have been some changes since then. [http://www.bethsoft.com/bgsforums/index.php?showtopic=809919 This thread], for instance, points out one such instance where the function doesn't seem to be there (whether it ever was there). | There's a category (set of pages?) that lists the vanilla scripts with certain functions. I imagine that all of these were determined with v1.0 and there have been some changes since then. [http://www.bethsoft.com/bgsforums/index.php?showtopic=809919 This thread], for instance, points out one such instance where the function doesn't seem to be there (whether it ever was there). | ||
It looks like these functions are easy enough to find (Find Text), and I imagine there are differences between the versions. So, should we delete the category/pages?--[[User:Haama|Haama]] 14:00, 15 February 2008 (EST) | It looks like these functions are easy enough to find (Find Text), and I imagine there are differences between the versions. So, should we delete the category/pages?--[[User:Haama|Haama]] 14:00, 15 February 2008 (EST) | ||
==Deleting Questions== | ==Deleting Questions== | ||
I started the process - it doesn't seem to be as daunting as I thought it would be (hooray for [[:Category:Request an Article]]). Anyway, should we make the decisions on where to put the question (delete, request, etc.) on our own or wait for a second vote?--[[User:Haama|Haama]] 18:17, 19 February 2008 (EST) | I started the process - it doesn't seem to be as daunting as I thought it would be (hooray for [[:Category:Request an Article]]). Anyway, should we make the decisions on where to put the question (delete, request, etc.) on our own or wait for a second vote?--[[User:Haama|Haama]] 18:17, 19 February 2008 (EST) | ||
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==="Answered" Section=== | ==="Answered" Section=== | ||
Everything in the Answered section, in theory, "isn't of real importance to the public" - I vote for whole-sale deletion of everything in the category. I recommend that people go through, give things a cursory glance to make sure that it actually isn't anything useful, and if not, yeah, we can just ditch all of it.<br /> | Everything in the Answered section, in theory, "isn't of real importance to the public" - I vote for whole-sale deletion of everything in the category. I recommend that people go through, give things a cursory glance to make sure that it actually isn't anything useful, and if not, yeah, we can just ditch all of it.<br /> | ||
[[User:DragoonWraith|<span style="font-family: Oblivion, Daedric Runes; size=2;">D</span>ragoon <span style="font-family: Oblivion, Daedric Runes; size=2;">W</span>raith]] [[User_talk:DragoonWraith|<span style="font-family: Oblivion, Daedric Runes; size=2;">TALK</span>]] 15:58, 24 February 2008 (EST) | [[User:DragoonWraith|<span style="font-family: Oblivion, Daedric Runes; size=2;">D</span>ragoon <span style="font-family: Oblivion, Daedric Runes; size=2;">W</span>raith]] [[User_talk:DragoonWraith|<span style="font-family: Oblivion, Daedric Runes; size=2;">TALK</span>]] 15:58, 24 February 2008 (EST) | ||
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[[User:DragoonWraith|<span style="font-family: Oblivion, Daedric Runes; size=2;">D</span>ragoon <span style="font-family: Oblivion, Daedric Runes; size=2;">W</span>raith]] [[User_talk:DragoonWraith|<span style="font-family: Oblivion, Daedric Runes; size=2;">TALK</span>]] 00:28, 29 February 2008 (EST) | [[User:DragoonWraith|<span style="font-family: Oblivion, Daedric Runes; size=2;">D</span>ragoon <span style="font-family: Oblivion, Daedric Runes; size=2;">W</span>raith]] [[User_talk:DragoonWraith|<span style="font-family: Oblivion, Daedric Runes; size=2;">TALK</span>]] 00:28, 29 February 2008 (EST) | ||
== Uploading test mods == | == Uploading test mods == | ||
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::Finally got a chance/reason to test this - we can't upload .esp files... Not sure if it's worth bugging GStaff and <sp?>TS37<sp?>, though. Almost a roll of the dice whether it'd be a better way to get people to upload their test mods.--[[User:Haama|Haama]] 17:18, 2 June 2008 (EDT) | ::Finally got a chance/reason to test this - we can't upload .esp files... Not sure if it's worth bugging GStaff and <sp?>TS37<sp?>, though. Almost a roll of the dice whether it'd be a better way to get people to upload their test mods.--[[User:Haama|Haama]] 17:18, 2 June 2008 (EDT) | ||
::There is a way of putting .rar files into the .jpg image and then upload it to be downloaded and extracted. ill get back to you on this one.--[[User:blindobi|blindobi]] | |||
== Wrye Changes == | == Wrye Changes == | ||
Okay, I'm sure that this stuff has been talked about before. For sure there was a major effort at putting together portals. But I'm not sure that was a good idea. To some degree it seems that we're now lost in a plethora of index pages (portals + categories + sub-categories). Kind of a lot. | Okay, I'm sure that this stuff has been talked about before. For sure there was a major effort at putting together portals. But I'm not sure that was a good idea. To some degree it seems that we're now lost in a plethora of index pages (portals + categories + sub-categories). Kind of a lot. | ||
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=== Deleting Articles === | === Deleting Articles === | ||
I'm using the Prod (Propose for Deletion) template a lot. | I'm using the Prod (Propose for Deletion) template a lot. | ||
* '''Tutorials''' - There seem to be way too many tutorials. Especially tutorials which are: incomplete, erroneous, bylined, chatty, poorly written, not useful. (The chatty tutorials are really getting on my nerves.) I'm prodding those that don't look useful. | * '''Tutorials''' - There seem to be way too many tutorials. Especially tutorials which are: incomplete, erroneous, bylined, chatty, poorly written, not useful. (The chatty tutorials are really getting on my nerves.) I'm prodding those that don't look useful. | ||
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===Deprecated Articles=== | ===Deprecated Articles=== | ||
I've also established a category and a template for [[:Category:Deprecated Articles]] (and <nowiki>{{Deprecated Article}}</nowiki>). This is for articles that are deprecated for some reason (erroneous, undesirable, outdated, etc.), but which we don't want to delete for some reason (historical, contains some useful info, etc.) --[[User:Wrye|Wrye]] 18:12, 1 June 2008 (EDT) | I've also established a category and a template for [[:Category:Deprecated Articles]] (and <nowiki>{{Deprecated Article}}</nowiki>). This is for articles that are deprecated for some reason (erroneous, undesirable, outdated, etc.), but which we don't want to delete for some reason (historical, contains some useful info, etc.) --[[User:Wrye|Wrye]] 18:12, 1 June 2008 (EDT) | ||
== Colons and Namespaces == | == Colons and Namespaces == | ||
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:::::Yes, very cool - that was the original intent. I'm removing the bits and pieces from the Scripting Tutorial category. I guess the same needs to be done with the Kits tutorial.--[[User:Haama|Haama]] 19:03, 3 June 2008 (EDT) | :::::Yes, very cool - that was the original intent. I'm removing the bits and pieces from the Scripting Tutorial category. I guess the same needs to be done with the Kits tutorial.--[[User:Haama|Haama]] 19:03, 3 June 2008 (EDT) | ||
== Function Listing == | == Function Listing == | ||
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Also, now that I've tried to not use the OBSE version categories I know why I liked them - When a new version of OBSE I tend to play with the functions, all around the same time. When I need a function, I remember that I played with it recently, or which version it was, before I remember what type of functions it was. So, yes, I still like the version categories.--[[User:Haama|Haama]] 13:38, 8 July 2008 (EDT) | Also, now that I've tried to not use the OBSE version categories I know why I liked them - When a new version of OBSE I tend to play with the functions, all around the same time. When I need a function, I remember that I played with it recently, or which version it was, before I remember what type of functions it was. So, yes, I still like the version categories.--[[User:Haama|Haama]] 13:38, 8 July 2008 (EDT) | ||
== COBL (and other mod mentions) == | == COBL (and other mod mentions) == | ||
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::[[User:DragoonWraith|<span style="font-family: Oblivion, Daedric Runes; size=2;">D</span>ragoon <span style="font-family: Oblivion, Daedric Runes; size=2;">W</span>raith]] [[User_talk:DragoonWraith|<span style="font-family: Oblivion, Daedric Runes; size=2;">TALK</span>]] 21:26, 2 June 2008 (EDT) | ::[[User:DragoonWraith|<span style="font-family: Oblivion, Daedric Runes; size=2;">D</span>ragoon <span style="font-family: Oblivion, Daedric Runes; size=2;">W</span>raith]] [[User_talk:DragoonWraith|<span style="font-family: Oblivion, Daedric Runes; size=2;">TALK</span>]] 21:26, 2 June 2008 (EDT) | ||
== 'See Also' Sections == | == 'See Also' Sections == | ||
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:--[[User:Qazaaq|Qazaaq]] 07:47, 18 July 2008 (EDT) | :--[[User:Qazaaq|Qazaaq]] 07:47, 18 July 2008 (EDT) | ||
== Revamp of the 'Categories' links == | == Revamp of the 'Categories' links == | ||
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Hide - ideally it would be nice, and I would love to see people connect any set of functions they wish, give it a good title, and add it to the appropriate function pages/templates. Realistically, there isn't enough input to expect this. Might be nice for big categories, but not really necessary. | Hide - ideally it would be nice, and I would love to see people connect any set of functions they wish, give it a good title, and add it to the appropriate function pages/templates. Realistically, there isn't enough input to expect this. Might be nice for big categories, but not really necessary. | ||
<br>--[[User:Haama|Haama]] 00:04, 26 August 2008 (EDT) | <br>--[[User:Haama|Haama]] 00:04, 26 August 2008 (EDT) | ||
===Categories, smategories=== | ===Categories, smategories=== | ||
Categories on this Wiki have been screwed up ever since Bethesda released it to the public. This has ''always'' been the case. Wrye's been crusading against it for a long time, and from some experiences I've had working on a brand-new Wiki, he's absolutely right. Categories are poorly used on this Wiki and it makes things very confusing for new users. Unfortunately, it will be exceedingly difficult to change anything at this point. Maybe if we had started from the get-go, but even then I'm not sure it would help. | Categories on this Wiki have been screwed up ever since Bethesda released it to the public. This has ''always'' been the case. Wrye's been crusading against it for a long time, and from some experiences I've had working on a brand-new Wiki, he's absolutely right. Categories are poorly used on this Wiki and it makes things very confusing for new users. Unfortunately, it will be exceedingly difficult to change anything at this point. Maybe if we had started from the get-go, but even then I'm not sure it would help. | ||
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:::::--[[User:Qazaaq|Qazaaq]] 07:37, 26 August 2008 (EDT) | :::::--[[User:Qazaaq|Qazaaq]] 07:37, 26 August 2008 (EDT) | ||
== Bethesda thread upload? == | == Bethesda thread upload? == | ||
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::[[User:DragoonWraith|<span style="font-family: Oblivion, Daedric Runes; size=2;">D</span>ragoon <span style="font-family: Oblivion, Daedric Runes; size=2;">W</span>raith]] [[User_talk:DragoonWraith|<span style="font-family: Oblivion, Daedric Runes; size=2;">TALK</span>]] 13:11, 24 November 2008 (EST) | ::[[User:DragoonWraith|<span style="font-family: Oblivion, Daedric Runes; size=2;">D</span>ragoon <span style="font-family: Oblivion, Daedric Runes; size=2;">W</span>raith]] [[User_talk:DragoonWraith|<span style="font-family: Oblivion, Daedric Runes; size=2;">TALK</span>]] 13:11, 24 November 2008 (EST) | ||
== Need working examples: == | |||
[[User:DragoonWraith|<span style="font-family: Oblivion, Daedric Runes; size=2;">D</span>ragoon <span style="font-family: Oblivion, Daedric Runes; size=2;">W</span>raith]] [[User_talk:DragoonWraith|<span style="font-family: Oblivion, Daedric Runes; size=2;">TALK</span>]] 16: | |||
wish you all would make scripts people actually use every day while modding, instead of these useless scripts that One person in TwoComeCarry Eygpt need's , and he probablly has not played the game in over a year. | |||
sample example scripts like: | |||
#Player is in combat, (need to script to get creature info, and number attacking. ) | |||
#How to stop combat, and script creature dispositions to level where can have dialog. | |||
#identify creatures and script mod there animations. | |||
#Tell people where the script need to be attached, Object, Quest, Spell, what ever. | |||
#3 lines of a script with out any understanding of where the variables came from is a joke.. | |||
if( Dogbugger.GetWithTheProgram && FroggyPoot.LostHisWay) != I'mLost | |||
dosomethingstupid | |||
endif | |||
does not really help Oblivion starting Code Monkeys much. | |||
I try to scearch this Wiki for good examples, and mostly all I get are Partial script pieces that don't work, or crash My Game, and leave me more confused than I was. | |||
why has sO much time been spent on sOo little real help. | |||
we need examples that work, and have enough code to know that you actually tested them, and that we can use to get them working. | |||
I have found some things in here that were very useful, but for the most part it is like a 5 year old receipt from Wally world. | |||
--[[User:Taglag|Taglag]] 19:43, 25 April 2009 (EDT) | |||
:I understand your frustration; most examples explain syntax, not semantics. Adding semantic examples would greatly increase the usefulness of the function pages, but someone will have to come up with those. There's shortage of editors and an extraordinarily large number of functions. Unless you are willing to sacrifice a large amount of your time I don't see this happening. To learn how to script I'd recommend following the [[:Category:Scripting Tutorials|tutorials]], looking through the [[:Category:Useful Code|useful code section]] and asking for help on the {{forums}} instead. | |||
:Last, but not least, please sign your comments with <nowiki>~~~~</nowiki> or the signature button in the edit bar. I've done this for the comment you posted already. (It's also custom to indent once more than the person you're responding to, as I've done here.) | |||
:--[[User:Qazaaq|Qazaaq]] 17:00, 25 April 2009 (EDT) | |||
::Please, please, please, don't start paragraphs with spaces. That initiates code boxes and makes your comments nigh-impossible to read. I've removed them. | |||
::Secondly, ''please'', use proper English grammar and spelling. We're volunteers here, and decyphering what you've written is ''not'' in our job descriptions. If you want help, make it easy for the people you are asking to understand what you are saying. | |||
::Thirdly, the ''game itself'' comes with hundreds of scripts. These should provide all the examples that you need. If you're looking for something that does a basic task, look up a script from a quest that you know does that. If you are looking for how a particular function is used, check Edit->Find Text to search for scripts where that function gets used. | |||
::Fourth, I just want to echo everything Qazaaq said, and recommend that you follow his advice. | |||
::[[User:DragoonWraith|<span style="font-family: Oblivion, Daedric Runes; size=2;">D</span>ragoon <span style="font-family: Oblivion, Daedric Runes; size=2;">W</span>raith]] [[User_talk:DragoonWraith|<span style="font-family: Oblivion, Daedric Runes; size=2;">TALK</span>]] 21:57, 25 April 2009 (EDT) | |||
== [[Template: Wiki Contributor]] added == | |||
I added a new template to the list of [[:Category:Templates|Templates]]:[[Template: Wiki Contributor|Wiki Contributor]]. Wiki Contributors are users who contribute to this Wiki and help other users by fulfilling request about page updates if they need updating, new articles if necessary, etc. (if those users lack the skill to do so themselves). | |||
<br>--[[User:Darkness X|Darkness X]] 12:22, 4 May 2010 (EDT) | |||
== Template layout == | |||
I suggest changing the layout of the [[:Category:Article Tag Templates|Article Tag Templates]] by adding an appropriate image to those templates and changing the layout into [[Template:Featured|this template's layout]]. All templates should have an identical layout so they could be recognized quickly. I changed the [[Template:Errors|Errors Template]] to let you know what I mean: | |||
<div id="catlinks" style="width: 90%; margin: 0.5em auto; border-style: dashed;"><div style="text-align: left; font-size: 1.2em;font-weight: bolder; letter-spacing: 0.25em; word-spacing: 0.5em;">Warning: Article May Contain Errors</div> | |||
---- | |||
<div style="float: left; margin: 5px 1em 5px 0.5em;">[[Image:FeaturedIcon.png|Featured Article]]</div> | |||
This article is believed to contain incorrect or misleading information. Please see the Talk page for details. If you can correct the article, please do so... | |||
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<br>--[[User:Darkness X|Darkness X]] 16:35, 6 May 2010 (EDT) | |||
:That's a good idea, but I'd suggest moving the title next to the icon. | |||
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:or centering the title, like the featured template. | |||
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:I moved this to the CP as other editors (by this I mean DragoonWraith, but others are welcome to join in!) may have an opinion about this. | |||
:--[[User:Qazaaq|Qazaaq]] 04:47, 7 May 2010 (EDT) | |||
::Your first idea looks good! I'm going to change the layout of all the [[:Category:Article Tag Templates|Article Tag Templates]] for now (until a final conclusion has been made), I'll update the templates later if changes have been made ... | |||
::I also have some experience with GIMP so I could create icons maching the CS Wiki style if you want me to do so (like I did with the [[Template:Bot|bot template]])? | |||
::--[[User:Darkness X|Darkness X]] 11:16, 7 May 2010 (EDT) | |||
:::That would be great! You're doing an amazing job organizing bits of the wiki, thanks! | |||
:::--[[User:Qazaaq|Qazaaq]] 05:33, 8 May 2010 (EDT) | |||
== More Templates? == | |||
:: | I found some interesting templates on the [http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Main_Page UESP Wiki] recently. [http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Category:User_Box_Templates User Box Templates]: templates that show personal information about a user: [http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Template:User_current_age age], [http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Template:User_Birthday birthday], [http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Template:User_American country], [http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Template:User_Male gender], etc... | ||
:: | |||
== | Could this be used on this Wiki? The actual question is: do users really want to use those templates? Do they want to reveal that kind of personal information? Is this a good idea?<br> | ||
--[[User:Darkness X|<span style="color:black;">Darkness</span> <span style="font-size:1.1em;color:black;">X</span>]] [[User talk:Darkness X|<sup><span style="color:black;">Talk</span>]]</sup> 15:45, 14 May 2010 (EDT) | |||
== New tutorial? == | |||
I've just created a scripting tutorial, possible to see [http://www.invision.tesalliance.org/forums/index.php?/topic/2669-tutorial-script-that-updates-your-leveled-items/ here]. Since I can't even find an option to create new page on this Wiki (usually I only need to type something in Search and then choose Create New Page...), I'm leaving this to be checked by more experienced users. It's useful, not useful, needs some improvement? I'll be happy for information. - [[User:ZuTheSkunk|ZuTheSkunk]] 10:41, 1 June 2010 (EDT) | |||
: | :To create a new page you can search for the title. If you search for help for example, the first line reads: <small>You searched for [[help]]</small> | ||
:--[[User:Qazaaq|Qazaaq]] | :Just click the red word help and you'll be directed to the help page, which doesn't contain any content yet. You can also fill in the title in the addressbar of your browser. To create a page with the title help you'd type this: http://cs.elderscrolls.com/constwiki/index.php/help. Note that you won't be editing the page immediately with this method, you need to click the edit button first. | ||
:I don't have time to read the entire tutorial, but what I've seen looks ok. We'd be happy to have it on the Wiki. | |||
:--[[User:Qazaaq|Qazaaq]] 14:28, 1 June 2010 (EDT) | |||
== Objects with tilde in their names == | |||
== | I don't know where to ask about it, so I'll ask it here. | ||
I've been recently wondering about vanilla objects that has tilde ("~") in their names. This character is not shown in-game, and from what I've been able to guess, he's some sort of forced carriage return or splitting of the name field. The example of item with tilde in his name is "Cursed Viper~Bane Cuirass" with ID "SEEnchEbonyCuirassResistPoison" (it is from SI, but there are also ones from stock OB). Is it mentioned somewhere on the site? If not, then maybe someone should check it further and add such mention? - [[User:ZuTheSkunk|ZuTheSkunk]] 03:40, 6 June 2010 (EDT) | |||
== About removing bylines on mainspace articles == | |||
I don't think waiting any longer than we already have would make removing bylines any more appropriate. In two months we have given the original authors 5 years to respond; that should be plenty of time for anyone to formulate a response. I can't recall any author who has responded to this message. | |||
However, [[:Template:Byline|the byline notice]] does not specifically warn against removal. It merely says: ''"Current rules do not allow bylines in mainspace articles"'' and calls for the original author to ''"comment on this in the Talk page."''. | |||
Despite this I'm '''not opposed''' to the removal of bylines from all mainspace articles. Even though we did not specifically warn against removing them at some point none of the authors have responded. That signifies nothing but disinterest, in their articles, or the byline policy. | |||
<br/>--[[User:Qazaaq|Qazaaq]] 16:57, 20 June 2012 (EDT) | |||
:On occasion, I was inclined to edit a bylined article, but was inhibited by the "courtesy is expected" text, which, in my dictionary, reads "don't touch it". | |||
:I am in favor of removing the byline and the byline notice. We could add a note to the respective talk page mentioning the original author and thank him/her for the contribution. | |||
:We must consider, also, that, being that old, many are pretty much deprecated (e.g. [[Linked List Tutorial]] and [[Activation Functions]]) while others are full of broken links (e.g. [[3ds Max: Tileset]]) | |||
:[[User:QQuix|QQuix]] 19:08, 20 June 2012 (EDT) | |||
::OK, a few points to consider, mostly historical in nature. | |||
::# "Courtesy is expected" does not mean and was not intended to mean "don't touch it" – it means literally that you should respect the original author if he or she can be found. I wrote that tag originally, so I would know. In fact, we were ''hoping'' that the line would, itself, ''encourage'' authors to edit the article, since it explicitly said that they could even though it was bylined. Bylines, prior to the warning being added to the page, struck many as claiming ownership, which is not (and never has been) allowed on this Wiki. | |||
::# While I agree that authors have had a very long time to respond, the fact of the matter is that there was never a systematic attempt to contact them, and as a result, there may be authors who have not been ignoring the notice for five years – they have been ''unaware'' of it for five years. Which is not the same thing, and moreover copyright definitely does not expire in five years even if you ignore it. | |||
::# While the authors ''do not'' have copyright on their contributions here, they may have contributed ''believing that they did'' due to a lack of clarity here at the time. The original decision with respect to bylines was that we would give those contributors the benefit of a "courtesy copyright" insofar as they could choose to remove the page in its entirety if they did not agree with the new enforcement of the rules. Note that contributors do not generally have the right to remove their work once submitted to the Wiki. | |||
::# We have long had a policy (sadly undocumented, most likely) of removing bylines when they are no longer accurate, i.e. that one author is not the only significant contributor to a page because later editors have (courteously) updated and improved upon it. Since this is ''exactly'' what we want people to do, it makes sense in that case to remove the byline. | |||
::# Deprecated or simply poor articles should be deleted or rewritten, no matter who wrote them originally or what name they may have appended to them. In such cases, a rewrite would certainly qualify for byline removal under the fourth point (such a rewrite is sufficient but definitely not necessary for byline removal). | |||
::# Dev_akm's FAQ was originally made an exception to all of the rules regarding article ownership. As a mirror of the forum thread, it actually ''was'' "his" as opposed to being a publicly-editable page. There was a brief attempt to mirror more threads in a similar fashion, which would have had similar rules, but that (as far as I am aware) never went beyond my playing with some stylesheets and templates. | |||
::OK, all that done with, I'd generally say that I'm not sure that the original decision was the right one (even though I agreed with it at the time). The fact of the matter is, authors never had any rights to what they submitted to this Wiki. While the Wiki tolerated the ''appearance'' of people taking ownership of articles (i.e. bylines), no attempt to actually exercise that ownership would have been permitted (though, to my knowledge, no such attempt was ever made, though I recall at least one contributor who stated he would have attempted it if someone had tried to edit "his" articles). | |||
::The submission page has always said | |||
:::<div style="background-color: #eee4cc; border: black 1px dashed; padding: 1em; margin-left: -1em;">Please note that all contributions to The Elder Scrolls Construction Set Wiki may be edited, altered, or removed by other contributors. If you do not want your writing to be edited mercilessly, then do not submit it here.<br/>You are also promising us that you wrote this yourself, or copied it from a public domain or similar free resource (see [[Project:Red_link|CSwiki:Copyrights]] for details). '''Do not submit copyrighted work without permission!'''</div><small>(Note the red link on CSwiki:Copyrights for the source of the original problem. This was rectified at the same time these decisions were made, which is why I faked the red link in the quote – the project namespace wasn't "CSwiki" either it was some ungodly long string.)</small> | |||
::In all honesty, there was never a good reason to expect that bylines were OK or that articles could be owned – it simply happened that some people did it and no one stopped them, and it became something that some contributors took for granted and never read the warning in the submission window. | |||
::But it's been five years, and that's an awful lot of courtesy to extend to people who were effectively breaking the rules, for all they were most likely unaware and also were contributing to the Wiki. | |||
::So, in short, I am '''in favor''' of removing the bylines and the warnings and being done with this whole fiasco. | |||
::[[User:DragoonWraith|<span style="font-family: Oblivion; size=2;">D</span>ragoon <span style="font-family: Oblivion; size=2;">W</span>raith]] [[User_talk:DragoonWraith|<span style="font-family: Oblivion; size=2;">TALK</span>]] 21:13, 20 June 2012 (EDT) | |||
:::Just throwing in my hat with the rest you guys' - '''In favor''' of removing the bylines.<br/>[[User:Shademe|shadeMe]] <b><sup>[[User_talk:Shademe|<span style="font-family: Oblivion, Daedric Runes; size=2;">TALK</span>]]</sup></b> 07:22, 21 June 2012 (EDT) | |||
::::OK. I will do it. How about a note in the Talk page mentioning the original author? Is it necessary? | |||
::::The deprecated articles I noticed are not exactly deprecated, as they may still be helpful to someone not willing to use OBSE. As for the ones with broken links, being 3dMax tutorials , it is hard to tell if they are still useful without the missing images. | |||
::::Anyway, I will keep a eye for those and tag them accordingly. [[User:QQuix|QQuix]] 06:53, 23 June 2012 (EDT) | |||
::::P.S. Did a few. Feel free to change/revert/whatever, as you seem fit. 16:34, 23 June 2012 (EDT) | |||
==Getting Started vs. Basic Concepts== | |||
I've been looking into some of the 'fundamentals' articles and I think they should be packed together in a Category, making them easier to find and to refer to (articles like Reference, FormID, Esp vs. Esm and such). I am considering calling it "Basic Concepts", unless you suggest a better name. | |||
Then there is the [[:Category:Getting Started|Getting Started]] category, which also applies to this kind of articles. Poll: should these articles be on both categories or should "Basic Concepts" be a subcategory of Getting Started? Any thoughts? [[User:QQuix|QQuix]] ([[User talk:QQuix|talk]]) 07:26, 29 July 2012 (EDT) | |||