the Oblivion ConstructionSet Wiki

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This page is for comments and suggestions for the Main Page of the CS Wiki. This is '''not''' for questions about Oblivion, the Construction Set, or modding in general. Please put these questions in appropriate places. Suggestions for the Wiki overall (not this page specifically) may go here, but are probably more appropriate at the [[Community Portal]].
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Main Page Talk Archives:
* [[Talk:Main Page/Archive 01|Archive 01]]
* [[Talk:Main Page/Archive 02|Archive 02]]




== Questions should go to the forums ==
== Questions should go to the forums ==
This is not the place to ask random questions about the CS. The only things that should be discussed here are things related to the use and structure of the wiki itself. Direct CS questions to the [http://www.elderscrolls.com/forums/index.php?s=34fe075e03e6aae8a1cf5768ffd7ad2b&showforum=24 Construction Set forum] or the [[:Category:Questions|Questions page]].
This is not the place to ask random questions about the CS. The only things that should be discussed here are things related to the use and structure of the wiki itself. Direct CS questions to the [http://www.elderscrolls.com/forums/index.php?s=34fe075e03e6aae8a1cf5768ffd7ad2b&showforum=24 Construction Set forum].


The admins are going to start enforcing this policy, so you should stop putting questions here or they are likely to be rolled back.
The admins are going to start enforcing this policy, so you should stop putting questions here or they are likely to be rolled back.
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--[[User:Kkuhlmann|Kkuhlmann]] 08:49, 10 April 2006 (EDT)
--[[User:Kkuhlmann|Kkuhlmann]] 08:49, 10 April 2006 (EDT)


== The existing game? ==
= Suggestions for the Main Page =
 
Is this wiki a suitable place for discussing bugs/oddities with the engine, or the main
Oblivion game? I realise these may not really be editing-related.. If not, is there a wiki that is suitable?
[[User:Moo|Moo]] 14:47, 25 March 2006 (EST)
 
:This wiki is a reference for The Construction Set and mods. Our official forums are where discussions on engine/game related bugs and quirks should be discussed. [[User:Ashileedo|Ashileedo]] 14:27, 26 Mar 2006
 
:[http://www.uesp.net/w/index.php?title=Oblivion:Oblivion UESP Oblivion]. You can start the Glitches/Goofs page starting from the link a the bottom. If there's a problem with the engine itself, in regards to modding, that should probably go on the [http://www.uesp.net/w/index.php?title=Tes4Mod:Modding Tes4Mod section]. You should look in the corresponding sections of the [http://www.uesp.net/w/index.php?title=Morrowind:Morrowind Morrowind]pages for similar pages and follow the lead. (Hmmm... Though I would have thought that glitches in the game engine would be reasonable to put here -- since modders need to work around them while working in CS4.) --[[User:Wrye|Wrye]] 00:56, 27 March 2006 (EST)
 
::Good point about putting engine issues on here as it could be useful -- My concern is that a list of issues with the game and engine here could turn into a point of contention and attract vandalism. As long as the tone is factual and neutral, should be okay. I would strongly suggest that anything documented must be verified by the contributor themselves or can be based on our readme documentation but not based off forum posts which can be unreliable. We want people to be able to trust what they read is factual and has been verified. [[User:Ashileedo|Ashileedo]] 10:28, 27 Mar 2006
 
:::I would suggest something like an [http://www.uesp.net/w/index.php?title=UESPWiki:Editing editors page] (might the same as the [[Help:Editing]] page). Site policy (what does and doesn't belong, plus standards for addition can be listed there). When listing what doesn't belong (e.g., mod lists, mod ideas(?)), you could also provide links to wikis/sites that are intended for that (and the forums, of course). Also, for page specific formatting and rules, you can put a "Style and Content" section at the top of the talk page (e.g., [http://www.uesp.net/w/index.php?title=Tes3Mod_Talk:Scripting_Pitfalls Uesp Scripting Pitfalls Talk].)  --[[User:Wrye|Wrye]] 11:38, 27 March 2006 (EST)
 
::::Looking for something like this: [[Standards and Policies]]? It isn't very easy to find at the moment, though.
 
 
== More Tutorials Please ==
I loved the create a dungeon tutorial, I wish there were more intermediate tutorials. I've been messing around with the editor and but learning on my own is slow and cumbersome. Do any other good editing resources exist? [[User:FViral|FViral]] 17:42, 26 March 2006 (EST)
 
:I also thought that the "My First Dungeon" tutorial was excellent, but we need to expand on it and add more. One on basic quests, scripting, havok, etc would be great. I already have a fairly cool dungeon laid out, but I am not sure where to go with the NPC quests for it. Also, does anyone know how to include havok'd rocks in a project?
--[[User:Void Main()|Void Main()]] 00:52, 27 March 2006 (EST)
 
:For my part, I'd like a tutorial on creating shopkeepers - I figure just about everyone is going to be creating dungeons, so I'd play around with something different. I'd also '''''really''''' like if, when Bethesda releases everything necessary for full creation of armor/clothing, someone could post a MAX file of something generic with all the settings correct so I could open it up and look at it. An ideal situation would be Bethesda actually posting one or more of the MAX files used to create the master file...
[[User:Aesirgard|Aesirgard]] 12:35, 7 April 2006 (EDT)
 
:I plan on releasing a tutorial explaining how I did my mod when it's finished. It'll cover some scripting, dialogue options, and NPC creation. [[User:Sockmonkeh|Sockmonkeh]] 12:58, 7 April 2006 (EDT)
 
-Criss
It would be nice with a detailed tutorial that showed you how to create new races and stuff.
 
-Bobman
I think it would be cool if there were another scripting tutorial to help learn some new commands. I really liked the first one but I wish there were more.
 
[[User: Sickleyield|Sickleyield]] 11 October 2006 (Pacific)
 
I think we could definitely use a few more "scripting for dummies" tutorials.  I've been trying to teach myself some basic scripting, but I'm not a programmer, and a good 80% of the discussion on this wiki (that isn't in the "useful functions" page with the ubersimple instructions) is utter Greek to me.  So far I can do message boxes and OnActivate and that's really it.
 
I'm working on a "Better Retexes" tutorial (this being an actual TUTORIAL, not a long harangue like that "advice for modders" one that circulated for a while), but I suspect the people I hope will read it probably won't.  :)
 
== Offline Help ==
 
Is there a way to download this Wiki or offer it for download so that those without internet access 24/7 can still get help when modding, if it was html a simple downloader would work, but its php and I can not find one suited for it.<p>
 
Thanks [[User:StaticNation|StaticNation]] 4:55 AM 28 March 2006 (CST)
 
 
: Well, the problem with that is that a Wiki is always changing, and at this point the TESCSWiki is far from complete. --[[User:JT|JT]] 14:07, 31 March 2006 (EST)
 
I'm in the same situation as StaticNation, i can only access this page from the computer (in a different house), but this is unable to run oblivion or CS, so all my editing has to be done elsewhere. Even though the wiki is always changing and is still incomplete it would still be helpful, and i do belive wikipedia has an ability to download its current archives onto your PC, and since this is based on the same technology as far as i know, would this be possible? --[[User:Yacob|Yacob]]
 
I too am suffering from the lack of internet and am only able to gain accses about once or twice a week. I understand the fact that a wiki is and will always be changing but if we could simply get an up to date, dowloadable version of the various tutorials or even just the main tutorial it would greatly help. If anyone knows any information about how to download all the files in one go, PLEASE post that info here for all to see.
--[[User:Ccdemon|Ccdemon]]
 
If you are using InternetExplorer on a Windows XP machine and all you want to do is get the tutorials then pull up each page individualy and then go file>save as... then name it and select "web archive, single file" from the 'save as type' dropdown. It takes a while as you have to save each page individualy but I think that may be the only way you can get it for now... Dunno if this will work on non Win-XP machines.
--[[User:RazielT|RazielT]]
 
:[[User:Althomas|Althomas]] 12:44, October 11, 2006: A fully populated downloadable command/function reference explaining syntax and what it does is desparately needed. Please excuse me from standing on my soap box. While having a Wiki as a community repository for instructions on how to do things is nice, A utility with this level of complexity should have included a .chm file or at least an indexed .pdf  Just setting up a Wiki and not populating much in it, is hardly supporting the mod community.
 
::[[User:DragoonWraith|<font face="Oblivion,Daedric Runes" size=2>D</font>ragoon <font face="Oblivion,Daedric Runes" size=2>W</font>raith]] [[User_talk:DragoonWraith|<font face="Oblivion,Daedric" size=2>TALK</font>]] 14:53, 11 October 2006 (EDT): The thing is, Bethesda doesn't '''have''' that documentation. They wrote the thing, they know how to make it do what they need it to do. And their policy on "supporting the mod community" is that they will give us what they have, but they will not do anything just for us. Which is frustrating as anything, but it's not wise to expect anything of them. This Wiki is a massive improvement over what we got for Morrowind. The guide to that was incomplete and often inaccurate. Something similar to this Wiki was made, but it was a PDF compiled by one guy, and uploaded to various mod sites. This allows far better distribution of knowledge as it is discovered. Take that as you will.
 
::For the record, there is probably more information about the TESCS and scripting on this website that Beth almost certainly never realized than there is actual additions by Bethesda.
 
 
== Bethesda Editors? ==
 
I'd really like to see an official page that lists all the official Bethesda editors. The page should be locked. As TESIV ages, the developers will have less and less input on the CS. When comparing revisions of documents on here, it would be nice to know that certain users were official Bethesda authors, versus someone adding into their User page ''Bethesda level designer'' or such, even if they aren't. An official locked page would remedy this problem (and it will happen, it always does on larger Wikis). [[User:Daego|Daego]] 11:57, 28 March 2006 (EST)
 
== Admins list ==
 
--[[User:Kkuhlmann|Kkuhlmann]] 13:32, 28 March 2006 (EST): [http://cs.elderscrolls.com/constwiki/index.php?title=Special:Listusers/sysop&limit=1000 List of admins] (this is linked from the [[Standards and Policies]] page, which might be what someone else was asking about).
 
:what's the difference between a sysop and Bearucrat? (sp?) [[User:Stormscape|Stormscape]]
::That's wiki admin stuff. Bureaucrats have the ability to raise other users to sysops. See [http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Setting_user_rights_in_MediaWiki#sysop MediaWiki] for more info. --[[User:Wrye|Wrye]] 19:01, 29 March 2006 (EST)
 
 
 
 
== Adding new pages? ==
 
Can we add new pages/categories/etc to the Wiki? I haven't figured out how, but in particular I think that .ini mods and .xml mods need sections for them, since they are probably the most popular mods right now, and are going to continue to be important. They're also something that the average person would be very interested in tweaking for their own preferences, and so this Wiki definitely ought to have sections for them. Does anyone know if we can add them, and if so, how? And if not, why not? And if not, can Beth do it for us, please?
 
--[[User:Kkuhlmann|Kkuhlmann]] 16:08, 30 March 2006 (EST)Anyone can add a new page by simply typing the URL, and editing the blank page that comes up. You'll need to put a Category:XXX link at the bottom of new pages if you want anyone to find them (preferred), or link them directly from another page (usually not preferred).
 
== Adding potentially obvious instructions? ==
 
I was flipping through some of the character settings in the editor and was looking at adding a [[Birthsigns|Birthsign]] and couldn't figure out how I was supposed to get spells in the list. After a minute or two, it occurred to me to go look through the objects list instead of magic efects. Then you just drag and drop a spell from there. Arguably, it didn't take me long and would be completely obvious to some people. So my question is whether or not adding these kinds of potentially obvious instructions would be frowned upon for cluttering up the Wiki or some such.
 
If not, should they be contained on directly on that page or a page linked under it?
[[User:Gunslinger|Gunslinger]] 19:12, 31 March 2006 (EST)
 
== Lacking useful functions ==
 
I've been browsing through the list of functions, and I'm surprised that some obvious ones seem to be missing. One thing is, there are no alchemy functions. Another, more surprising is that there are no angle/radius positioning functions, apart from PlaceAtMe, which creates a new instance.
 
You can get a heading and distance to something, but you can't position objects by them, so you can't e.g. move an existing object to be in front of the player or another actor. There also seems to be no way to tell actors to simply move a distance ahead. It seems that the only way that this can be done now is using trigonometry, but of course, there are no trigonometry functions.
 
Is there a wishlist for the next version/expansion? [[User:EagleEye|EagleEye]] 09:50, 1 April 2006 (EST)
:Square root also seems to be gone :([[User:EagleEye|EagleEye]]
 
::UESP Wiki has some math approximations: [http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Tes3Mod:Math_Functions Math Functions]. Sqrt not included since they're for Morrowind, which has sqrt. --[[User:Wrye|Wrye]] 00:38, 2 April 2006 (EST)
 
::--[[User:Kkuhlmann|Kkuhlmann]] 09:43, 4 April 2006 (EDT): There are a number of position functions: [[SetAngle]], [[SetPos]], [[PositionCell]], [[PositionWorld]]. Using these on actors, however, can lead to unexpected results (they may still think they are somewhere else). Actors should be controlled using packages.
 
:::[[User:Jaks|Jaks]] 13:50, 4 April 2006 (EDT):  Not sure thats always possible.  Packages, at least in this early stage of my learning curve, seem VERY limiting.  Its difficult to integrate them with in with scripts and their needed timings for intricate manueverings of NPCs.  I tend to think of packages as daily routines for the AI to go about their business but quests and player interaction, in my eyes, should use scripts to override those routines.  On the other hand, the script API does provide the ability to add and remove packages on the fly, so maybe a combination (much like the recently released [http://www.elderscrolls.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=343777 HorseCommands] mod does) is the better choice.  In the end though, I do not think packages provide for the level of detail this request is asking for.
 
:::--[[User:Kkuhlmann|Kkuhlmann]] 16:50, 7 April 2006 (EDT): Well, we managed to put together a number of rather intricate scenes using the same tools you have available to you -- charactergen, for example. Every staged scene in the main quest. Do I wish we had better tools? Sure. But I think you need to look at some of the scripts and NPC packages used in charactergen (for example) before you decide that packages are "very limiting".
 
== Known Issues ==
 
[[User:Doppelganger|Doppelganger]] 18:58, 3 April 2006 (EDT): "Data race" was in fact undocumented modifiers on the [[ModActorValue]] function, now documented by one of the people in the know. The difficulty, however, in getting this information was altogether too much...
 
/signed, we need an area to report issues and verify them as known. Nowhere does it say that the script compiler/editor will silently fail to compile a script with mismatching parens () .. I just spent an hour looking for a syntax error, it turned out to be a missing open paren, the script editor silently failed with no warning when compiling the script - it just refused to save my changes. I'd like to save other people this headache.
--[[User:Halo112358|Halo112358]] 22:09, 2 April 2006 (EDT)
 
--[[User:Kkuhlmann|Kkuhlmann]] 09:49, 4 April 2006 (EDT): Re: silently failing -- The compiler will throw up a warning over any compile error. Is it possible that you already clicked "Yes to All" to a previous warning (which would turn off all warnings for your current session)? Check the EditorWarnings.txt in the editor's folder -- you'll see the warnings there even if you turned off the popup.
 
--[[User:Gerrie|Gerrie]] Hi, dont know where else i should put this:
Error Message:
"Warning: Unable to complete operation due to failure removing previous tempfile remains. Continue playing? "Yes to all" will disable warnings this session."
This means some application is still using your plugin file and the construction set fails to save your new version. Be careful not to press "Yes", as all your following saves will get lost with no error message.
To solve this: Close your programs and reboot, when you get the errormessage for the first time. Does anybody know a better workaround, so you dont lose your newest save?
 
-- Wouldn't a known issues / bug report category be useful (linked from the main index? --[[User:GhanBuriGhan|GhanBuriGhan]] 17:20, 25 July 2006 (EDT)
 
== Settings Documentation ==
 
The settings page is home to many variables useful for tweaking gameplay easily.  However, many of these variables have cryptic names and/or implementation.  Would it be possible for developers to take some time detailing some of these setting and their affect on gameplay?
 
--[[User:ZantarV|ZantarV]]
 
== Bethesda and mod developers releasing mods ==
 
Does Bethesda have a system in place for mod devs to launch a mod, and get payment for it (with security in place), as Bethesda is doing with their own mods? Just like Valve has for its huge mod community with HL/HL2 over Steam?
[[User:Skjalg|Skjalg]] 14:40, 4 April 2006 (EDT)
 
I doubt it.  If you read the license agreement, any mods created using the construction set are property of Bethesda. [[User:BCampbell|BCampbell]] 12:59, 5 April 2006 (EDT)
 
== Site skin does not display properly on Mac Safari (10.4.5) ==
 
Hello all,
 
This site does not display properly on Mac OS X (PowerPC) 10.4.5 Safari web browser.
 
Here's a cropped screenshot: [[Image:Bad-render.png|thumb]]
 
Note that the sidebar (Navigation, Toolbox, Search, Personal Tools) seems to overdraw the rest of the page.
 
Thanks!
 
[[User:Callie|Callie]] 18:08, 4 April 2006 (EDT)
 
:It's a problem with the javascript, apparently. I tried to do some troubleshooting on it thinking it was a stylesheet bug. I wasn't having problems with a local version, so I turned off javascript (using Shiira, it renders with Apple's WebKit) and it worked fine. Alternatively, you can use the other skin. [[User:Gunslinger|Gunslinger]] 12:15, 5 April 2006 (EDT)
 
 
== How can I add pages to the Index? ==
 
I created a "Questions" category that I think would be helpful to people with questions.  Answered questions we can then move to the "Solutions" category.  However, I cannot seem to figure out how to get my newly made category linked to the main index.
 
:--[[User:Kkuhlmann|Kkuhlmann]] 13:24, 8 April 2006 (EDT): Good idea. Done!
 
--[[User:Brainspackle|Brainspackle]] 13:29, 8 April 2006 (EDT): Very nice!  Good response time too, thanks. ;)
 
== Categories Page is Helpful ==
 
I have found this page to be quite helpful: http://cs.elderscrolls.com/constwiki/index.php?title=Special:Categories
 
However, it is hard for me to find that page easily, as it does not seem to be linked from anywhere.  I am not even quite sure how I originally found it.
 
:--[[User:Kkuhlmann|Kkuhlmann]] 13:25, 8 April 2006 (EDT): If you click on the "Category" link at the bottom of any page in a category, you'll go to the full list of categories.
 
::--[[User:Osmose|Moose]] 16:42, 10 April 2006 (EDT): That's one of the special pages Wikis put in by default. And they appear to all be gone when I try to go to the listing. Any particular reason? Just wondering.
 
:::The reason is that the specials pages is bugged in this wiki. if you refresh the page just long enough , the list of special pages appears. [[User:Vvenaya|Vvenaya]] 16:55, 10 April 2006 (EDT)
 
::::[[User:Osmose|Moose]] 17:07, 10 April 2006 (EDT): Weak. Any idea as to why it's happening?
 
:--[[User:Brainspackle|Brainspackle]] 13:30, 8 April 2006 (EDT): Thanks for the clarification.  Wikis have a bit of a learning curve.
 
==Tutorials versus Solutions==
I just noticed that we have both a [[:Category:Tutorials]] <i>and</i> [[:Category:Solutions]]. I can understand why we would want both, but maybe we should define what tutorials and solutions are so we don't get tutorials in the solutions category and not under tutorials? [[User:Mrflippy|Mrflippy]] 16:16, 8 April 2006 (EDT)
 
--[[User:Kkuhlmann|Kkuhlmann]] 08:53, 10 April 2006 (EDT): My view is that a tutorial is a step-by-step guide to doing a general task in the editor: building a dungeon, creating a worldspace, creating a quest, etc. A "Solution" is a specific method for doing some tricky or obscure task -- a way to prevent others from having to "reinvent the wheel" whenever they try to do the same thing. Maybe they do overlap more than I think -- if the general consensus is that they are redundant, we can always fold them together into the same category ("Tutorials and Solutions").
 
:No, I think it's a good idea to have both categories. We just need definitions for organization's sake. I think your definition is pretty good. In some cases the categories may overlap, but in that case we can just add a page to both categories. --[[User:Mrflippy|Mrflippy]] 17:08, 10 April 2006 (EDT)
 
==Discussing GUI/HUD mods==
Would it be appropriate to add sections for GUI/HUD mods, even though these mods don't directly involve the CS? For example, BTMod deals almost exclusively with editing XML files unpacked from the misc.bsa file. Although these files aren't accessible from the CS, documenting their structure and functionality would bee a huge boon to the modding community, as BTMod is perhaps the most popular Oblivion mod right now, and those XML files are very complicated and deceptively powerful.
--[[User:Mrdowns|Mrdowns]] 10:16, 12 April 2006 (EDT)
:If it's not appropriate here, we'll be glad to have it at UESP Wiki! We've already got a little material like that at: [http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Tes4Mod:Modding Oblivion Modding] (look for File Formats section). I've got a little info on my own site too [http://wrye.ufrealms.net/Oblivion%20Configuration.html Oblivion Configuration] which I'll merge into UESP wiki when I have some time. --[[User:Wrye|Wrye]] 18:43, 12 April 2006 (EDT)
::I had asked the same question in the questions section just yesterday.  I think this information would be useful to modders.
 
== Wish list link ==
 
There should be a link on the main page to the [[Wish List]]. --[[User:Maian|Maian]] 21:32, 16 April 2006 (EDT)
 
== Styles need work/horizontal scrolling is EVIL ==
 
Hi there,
 
with Firefox 1.5.0.2 on Windows XP I have to scroll horizontally to view the text. I'm not particularily fond of maximizing the browser just to view a web page, and would like to configure the browser window size to my preferences, not to the web page authors idea of workflow. Please don't do the fixed-width thing.
 
I resorted to the alternative style, which looks rather poor. It should have a different background (darktan_bg.jpg, paper + MediaWiki style don't work very well together) and a different logo (banner.jpg), which is displayed behind the text frame. I just adblocked that one, resulting in an empty space where the pages logo should be.
 
Thanks & best regards.
 
: This isn't specific to Firefox - does the same thing in IE. --[[User:Maian|Maian]] 06:37, 4 May 2006 (EDT)
 
::The site is designed for a minimum width of about 1000px. At 1024x768 resolution, that means maximizing the page. At 800x600, I imagine, it wouldn't fit even maximized. This was a decision made by the site designers, and its a decision the designers of most sites must make, though most try to make the minimum width about 800px...--[[User:DragoonWraith|DragoonWraith]] 22:56, 13 May 2006 (EDT)
 
:::For my browsing, I seldom use less than 1600px in the horizontal resolution. While horizontal scrolling ''is'' evil, wasting about 50% of my screen space (at the ''lowest'' resolution I use) for black borders is nontheless highly annoying. The web site designers of the elderscrolls.com should really learn their job and look up "fluid design" sometime. Thankfully, they left the Monobook CSS mostly intact, which means I don't have to write my own style into [[User:(myusername)/Monobook.css]] ... --[[User:Khadir|Khadir]] 11:30, 21 June 2006 (EDT)
:::: ... which doesn't work here anyway, it seems. Why is $wgAllowUserCss disabled, exactly? --[[User:Khadir|Khadir]] 11:43, 21 June 2006 (EDT)
 
== StartYourMod ==
 
I made a tutorial which I think is an important one, but i didn't realise that it didn;t go in the tutorial section of the wiki. [[StartYourMod]] if someone could move it and my first discussion item attached I would appreciate it.
 
:[[User:DragoonWraith|<font face="Oblivion,Daedric" size=3>D</font>ragoon <font face="Oblivion,Daedric" size=3>W</font>raith]] [[User_talk:DragoonWraith|<font face="Oblivion,Daedric" size=2>TALK</font>]] 13:35, 1 June 2006 (EDT): I moved it to [[Start Your Mod]], since it didn't make sense for it to not have spaces, and I added it to the [[:Category:Tutorials]] category. I also explained how these things are done on its [[Talk:Start Your Mod|Talk]] page.
 
 
==Claim cell ownership in the Tamriel world space==
Well, since this is the place most modders go to after the TES forums, how about doing a page where people can make claims to certain cells. Then this info could go into their documentation. Those modmakers who don't use this will at least alert people to the fact that it might conflict with any number of mods. Unless this is already up and working and I'm too stupid to find it - the navigation of this site leaves something to be desired :-) tho' it is getting better. Franc Kaos.
 
:IMO there isn't much reason to claim cells in Tamriel, make new Worldspaces instead.--[[User:JOG|JOG]] 04:20, 18 June 2006 (EDT)
 
::[[User:DragoonWraith|<font face="Oblivion,Daedric" size=3>D</font>ragoon <font face="Oblivion,Daedric" size=3>W</font>raith]] [[User_talk:DragoonWraith|<font face="Oblivion,Daedric" size=2>TALK</font>]] 13:01, 13 July 2006 (EDT): "Claim" isn't a good idea, either. Would be nice to have a repository of this data, though. Even with the existance of new worldspaces, it's good to know for people who specifically add things ''to'' Cyrodiil.
 
:::[[User:ShadowDancer|ShadowDancer]] 08:19, 15 July 2006 (EDT): I agree that it would be nice to have a repository of this data.  The only problem is that anyone who doesn't know about it won't add in any world space that they have used.  It would also be nice if it were standard to add altered cell info as a comment in the summary window on the plugin file.  I think that it is more likely that the plugin file would be done by modders if they are told about it than adding that info to a page in the wiki.  Ideally, both would be done, and info about changed world spaces would be included in the description of the downloadable file.  If modders could be brought to see this as a requirement (or at least good etiquette) it would work nicely for other modders.
 
:::Rather than claim ownership, make it ''Modifies Worldspaces:''  I would go so far as to say that there should be a page for [[:Category:About Modding Etiquette|Modding Etiquette]] already.  Include in it how to clean up your mod and anything else along those lines, including things like not compiling all of the scripts into your mod, etc.  Basically all the things that someone who hasn't done a mod before needs to know in order to not cause problems for other modders or mod users.
 
==Articles for Deletion Category==
It would be quite useful if an administrator could list the "Category:Articles for Deletion" page on the main page, or at least review it -- as that was the intention: for administrators to review it and delete pages that get categorized under it. --[[User:MaXiMiUS|MaXiMiUS]] 20:21, 25 June 2006 (EDT)
 
=="Create a login"==
As any geek or wiki user would tell you, that is a horribly stupid phrase. It should read "create an account". "Login" is a verb, not a noun. [[User:Aaa|Aaa]] 02:46, 26 June 2006 (EDT)
 
== Question about the History lists ==
 
In the History of a page, and on the [[Special:Recentchanges|Recent Changes]] page, there's an exclamation point (!) next to some of the edits. I was wondering what that signified?
 
I know that 'N' means "new" and 'm' means "minor", but I haven't seen an explanation of the !.
 
:[[User:ShadowDancer|ShadowDancer]] 13:46, 13 July 2006 (EDT): The exclaimation point indicate articles that are not patrolled.  When you click on (diff) it shows you the revisions box with previous things for that edit in the yellow boxes, new things in the green boxes, and things in red are changed items.  In that box under the name of the person who made that edit is [Mark as patrolled] which when clicked removes the exclaimation point from the recent changes page.  New pages don't have a (diff) selection because they are new, but if you click on the link to that page from the recent changes list, there is [Mark this article as patrolled] down on the lower right corner which does the same thing when you click on it.  Anytime someone looks at that article and verifies that that change wasn't spam should click on [Mark as patrolled] so that it is known that the changes are OK.  It should also be done to article changes that are reverted or removed so that everyone knows that that particular change has been checked.  See also: [[How to Mark an Article as Patrolled]].
 
:I haven't seen a history page with the exclaimation point.  Can you point one out?
 
::[[User:DragoonWraith|<font face="Oblivion,Daedric" size=3>D</font>ragoon <font face="Oblivion,Daedric" size=3>W</font>raith]] [[User_talk:DragoonWraith|<font face="Oblivion,Daedric" size=2>TALK</font>]] 16:07, 13 July 2006 (EDT): Er. No. Maybe I just thought they were there, I didn't actually check. Anyway, thank you for answering my question.
 
== Change Tutorial links? ==
 
To finish rearranging the tutorial subcategory organization, could we change the links to the tutorials on the main page to the "article version" - then I could delete those subcategories. While at that, the "A beginners guide" and "Basic NPC" tutorials would deserve a direct link as well.--[[User:GhanBuriGhan|GhanBuriGhan]] 14:23, 2 August 2006 (EDT)
 
For now I have used redirects.--[[User:GhanBuriGhan|GhanBuriGhan]] 14:36, 2 August 2006 (EDT)
 
== [[Welcome to the Wiki]] and [[Welcome to Wiki Syntax]] ==
 
[[User:DragoonWraith|<font face="Oblivion,Daedric Runes" size=2>D</font>ragoon <font face="Oblivion,Daedric Runes" size=2>W</font>raith]] [[User_talk:DragoonWraith|<font face="Oblivion,Daedric" size=2>TALK</font>]] 13:22, 16 August 2006 (EDT): I wrote fairly comprehensive guides to this Wiki and on Wiki syntax in general (far surpassing anything else I've found here), and I was wondering if these could be added to the Main Page somehow? I've had a number of people mention that they couldn't find them.
 
 
== Spam Stays Out ==
 
Spam stays off this wiki.  If you must advertise for your unbelievable flawless-beautiful-powerful-uber-superior product, then it doesn't belong here.  By putting a comment or whatever here, you are not only violating the rules of the wiki, but taking unnecessary webspace, providing a hassle for the people who moderate this wiki, and taking away from our hobby/job.  If it has nothing to do with the CS or modding for TES, then it does not belong here, so do NOT advertise here.  Spammers will be labelled as so.  Violators of the wiki will recieve permanent IP bans from this wiki.
 
Here is the editting policy rule number one:
 
# '''Only add appropriate content.''' The Construction Set Wiki is intended as a repository of knowlege about using the TES IV Construction Set and modding TES IV Oblivion. Material that does not fit this goal should be moved to another fan site, or removed altogether.
 
:[[User:DragoonWraith|<font face="Oblivion,Daedric Runes" size=2>D</font>ragoon <font face="Oblivion,Daedric Runes" size=2>W</font>raith]] [[User_talk:DragoonWraith|<font face="Oblivion,Daedric" size=2>TALK</font>]] 21:01, 14 September 2006 (EDT): Of course, most 'spammers' are probably just robots anyway, and regardless, every spammer knows damn well that it doesn't belong here. They're paid by the number of links they send pack to the company their advertising for. The only real solution is to just delete those links when they're created.


:I don't understand why anyone would hire these people, though. Do they honestly think that people are actually going to click on those links?
[[User:DragoonWraith|<span style="font-family: Oblivion, Daedric Runes; size=2;">D</span>ragoon <span style="font-family: Oblivion, Daedric Runes; size=2;">W</span>raith]] [[User_talk:DragoonWraith|<span style="font-family: Oblivion, Daedric Runes; size=2;">TALK</span>]] 00:27, 27 June 2007 (EDT): Please post any suggestions you may have for improving the Main Page here. Please give your suggestion a tier-two header (=='s on either side), and please sign it with <nowiki>~~~~</nowiki>.


::Well, you know there are lurkers out there, just randomly browsing the web.  Idle passers-by I guess, and when they post on abandoned forums or stuff, then there's really nobody to take the link out, and random people might find it, get curious, click...  I don't know, I don't actually click on any of the links unless I'm positive it relates to something I'm looking for.  Anyway, some spammer guy posting underneath this would still look funny, demonstrating how spammers really couldn't care less or be more ignorant. :P  Ah, this probably won't do much, but the points still stand, and so forth.  I think I'll ''try'' to contact one of the Beaurocrats (admins) of this wiki over on the ESF, see if they can't set someone else up as a sysop (moderator?). [[User:TheImperialDragon|The Imperial Dragon]] 21:58, 14 September 2006 (EDT)
==Suggestion: Tutorial's link==


::What I'm trying to say is we need more moderators!
I would like to see a link on the main page that directs you to page listing all the tutorials currently on the wiki. I'm not sure if such a page exists yet but a link on the main page would definately be nice. The way I see it, it would direct more traffic to the tutorials section which would in turn increase the quality and diversity of tutorials on this wiki.<BR>
--[[User:Antares|Antares]] 00:27, 5 September 2008 (EDT)


:::[[User:DragoonWraith|<font face="Oblivion,Daedric Runes" size=2>D</font>ragoon <font face="Oblivion,Daedric Runes" size=2>W</font>raith]] [[User_talk:DragoonWraith|<font face="Oblivion,Daedric" size=2>TALK</font>]] 22:17, 14 September 2006 (EDT): For what it's worth, Beth agrees with you on that one. J.B mentioned that in response to a question I had about editting the [[Main Page]] in his thread on [http://www.elderscrolls.com/forums/index.php?showforum=25 ObMod].
:I agree, it's the most used section of the Wiki, so a link on the main page would make sense. I'm thinking of next to the Index, Categories and Featured Content links.
:Antares, there's such a listing here: [[:Category:Tutorials]]
:--[[User:Qazaaq|Qazaaq]] 04:02, 5 September 2008 (EDT)


==Interest in Modeling Tutorial?==


[[User: SickleYield|SickleYield]] 11:11 29 September 2006
== Suggestion : User's Online ==
How about a counter at the bottom of the screen, showing number of people viewing the current page, and list of registered members online in the bottom of the main page ? Just like in any forum script. -- [[User:Shademe|shademe]] 08:52, 29 September 2008 (EDT)


I made a new tutorial here for setting up a new shield mesh in Blender, since the only available one was for 3dsMax. (It seems odd to me that so few of the good tutorials are for opensource programs, given that opensource is all most of us can afford.)  If I were to make a tutorial for, say, creating and setting up a new cuirass from Blender, could I post it on this wiki?  It would only involve the CS in the last few steps, so I'm not totally sure if that would be appropriate.  On the other hand, it would reach a wider audience of potential future armormakers.
:Number of users, easy. Currently viewing the page? No idea. That would have to be something Bethesda implements. I could ask about it if people really want it, but I dunno, never been a big concern for me.
:[[User:DragoonWraith|<span style="font-family: Oblivion, Daedric Runes; size=2;">D</span>ragoon <span style="font-family: Oblivion, Daedric Runes; size=2;">W</span>raith]] [[User_talk:DragoonWraith|<span style="font-family: Oblivion, Daedric Runes; size=2;">TALK</span>]] 11:54, 29 September 2008 (EDT)


Thoughts?
::A thoroughly excellent idea, it would be great to see which registered users are online as I believe it could positively impact the speed at which things are achieved/questions are answered. I have to say I'm with DragoonWraith on the Currently viewing page idea, although it would be cool and nice I do not see it as being a big deal. I am impartial on the latter of those two, all for the former though.
::--[[User:Antares|Antares]] 06:08, 30 September 2008 (EDT)


:[[User:DragoonWraith|<font face="Oblivion,Daedric Runes" size=2>D</font>ragoon <font face="Oblivion,Daedric Runes" size=2>W</font>raith]] [[User_talk:DragoonWraith|<font face="Oblivion,Daedric" size=2>TALK</font>]] 22:35, 29 September 2006 (EDT): As you can see [[:Category:Modeling and Texturing Tutorials|here]], there are lots of modelling tutorials here - and we need more! Seriously, in general the tutorial section of this site needs work (well, it did last I checked, which was admittedly '''quite''' a long time ago and I know a number of them have seen a lot of revision since then), so work in that area would be ''greatly'' appreciated.
:What I meant was something like this ...<br>
[[Image:Boardstats.JPG|700px]]<br>
:... in the main page for starters. And perhaps a internal IM applet/shoutbox, for discussion of the registered members ? -- [[User:Shademe|shademe]] 09:17, 30 September 2008 (EDT)


::[[User: SickleYield|SickleYield]] 12:28 30 September 2006 (EDT)
::Well, it would have to be Bethesda doing it. But I can ask. Don't hold your breath, though; the Wiki is not high on the list of priorities, so anything that involves more than usual maintenance is often a lot to ask. Asking them to go and find some kind of applet that does this, or code it themselves, is probably more than we can hope for.


Actually, no, there are not lots of modeling tutorials.  I originally came to this site months and months ago going, "I want to make armor!" only to discover that what's here is more along the lines of, "Here's how to make retexes!"  The tutorials do seem to mostly be for very specific things (critters, robes under armor) that aren't what most modders will want to make. For someone like me - though I know everyone has their own taste - the game doesn't need three billion new colors, it needs three billion new meshes.  And I've noticed people who know how to model aren't all that eager to make tutorials.  I can understand that, because modeling is complex, but I'll go ahead and start a clothes/armor-modeling tutorial in my spare time.  I think we really need a good UV map/Original texture tutorial, since that skill is even rarer and no less difficult than modeling.  I'm not sure when I'll fit all this in, but I'll try.
::If you want to improve the chances, you could help them out with this by finding something for them that I can link them to. Then they would only have to implement it, which could happen, perhaps.
::[[User:DragoonWraith|<span style="font-family: Oblivion, Daedric Runes; size=2;">D</span>ragoon <span style="font-family: Oblivion, Daedric Runes; size=2;">W</span>raith]] [[User_talk:DragoonWraith|<span style="font-family: Oblivion, Daedric Runes; size=2;">TALK</span>]] 10:25, 30 September 2008 (EDT)


:Hi there, please note that the processes of doing things you describe are still very much in development. E.g. the process to make a new creature with a new skeleton is about 2 weeks old. It's no wonder there are only a few tutorials around.
:::Here's a link to [[http://www.phpbb.com/ phpBB]]. You probably know about this, but this is a bulletin board script. It should have the script for the user's online. Maybe it can be extrapolated into the WiKi's - It should be fairly easy considering the wiki's running on phP -- [[User:Shademe|shademe]] 05:08, 1 October 2008 (EDT)
:What I'd like to have would be a simple MAKE UR OWN SWOOOORD!!-type tutorial for Blender I could point people on the forum to who want start with modelling.
:If you want to take it upon yourself to write a tutorial, ''please just start with it''! Any new tutorial for whatever creative will be much appreciated!
:Regars! [[User:Fragment|Fragment]] 18:55, 30 September 2006 (EDT)


::[[User:DragoonWraith|<font face="Oblivion,Daedric Runes" size=2>D</font>ragoon <font face="Oblivion,Daedric Runes" size=2>W</font>raith]] [[User_talk:DragoonWraith|<font face="Oblivion,Daedric" size=2>TALK</font>]] 20:06, 30 September 2006 (EDT): Please read [[Welcome to the Wiki]], too, most notably the section on the "Greatness of a Wiki" - it was actually written after I became frustrated with the modelling tutorials we have here, which are difficult to follow and spread information all over the place where it's hard to find what you're looking for.
::::I'm not against the idea, doesn't really matter to me, but the idea that it's easy because the Wiki is also coded in PHP is false. The Wiki's user system is extremely different from a forum's. Adding the PHP code from phpBB is most likely even harder than writing it from scratch. If you want any chance of getting this you'll need to find a MediaWiki extension that does this. Extensions are relatively easy to install, but that's not all, probably changes to the stylesheet are also necessary. It's Bethesda's and was made to work with extras like this. This greatly reduces the chances of getting this feature installed. Unless you can find an extension, don't even count on it. See [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Category:Extensions here] for MediaWiki extensions.
::::--[[User:Qazaaq|Qazaaq]] 17:05, 1 October 2008 (EDT)


:<nowiki>*</nowiki>Enters this big and long list of questions*, This page could also use some re-formatting. Dragoon, what program do you use for modelling? [[User:TheImperialDragon|The Imperial Dragon]] 21:37, 30 September 2006 (EDT)
:::Well, I was digging into MediaWiKi's extension and found a few : [[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:ShoutBox ShoutBox]], [], [[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:AjaxWhosOnline AjaX Version of Who's Online]], [[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:OnlineStatus Set Online status preference]]. Think this can be implemented ( sorry If this seems dumb, I a client-sided coder ) ? helloo ... ? -- [[User:Shademe|shademe]] 07:54, 2 October 2008 (EDT)


::[[User:DragoonWraith|<font face="Oblivion,Daedric Runes" size=2>D</font>ragoon <font face="Oblivion,Daedric Runes" size=2>W</font>raith]] [[User_talk:DragoonWraith|<font face="Oblivion,Daedric" size=2>TALK</font>]] 18:54, 1 October 2006 (EDT): Attempted Blender. Wasn't half-bad with it (got through Blender n00b-to-Pro, which I've heard others say is a bit much for a beginner, I dunno - I can follow instructions, I guess), but I couldn't for the life of me get anything in game.
::::I'd prefer the [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:WhosOnline Who's Online] extension (not my decision though) but that one requires MediaWiki 1.11+ and we're running 1.10.0 here. Only the [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:ShoutBox ShoutBox] is compatible with 1.10.0, but it doesn't really sound like what we're looking for. Maybe there are older versions of the other extension available.
::::--[[User:Qazaaq|Qazaaq]] 12:55, 6 October 2008 (EDT)


::[[User: SickleYield|SickleYield]] 18:04 30 September 2006 (EDT)
:::::It's conceivable that upgrading the Wiki would be possible. They've done it in the past. We could also ask how much that would entail. Considering that they have installed newer versions for other Wikis, they would know what they would need to do and whether or not it's worth it.


::Okay, I'll try and create a sword one first.  It's far easier than armor because there's no weight painting.  Dragoon, have you seen my shield tutorial?  Was there a problem with that?  I read the Wiki section you reference before I put up the tutorial and tried to follow it, it's just that it's a complex subject.  It has subheadings, but I can't figure out how to do table of contents. Are there instructions for that anywhere?  For that matter, some of these format coding things are really what I need to know, but most of the advice seems of the broad and stylistic kind like, "Don't write an article no one can read," rather than "type the following to create a table of contents."
:::::I know newer Wikis support Redirects being put in Categories, which I find desirable. Anyone know of any other advantages of the newer Wiki version?
:::::[[User:DragoonWraith|<span style="font-family: Oblivion, Daedric Runes; size=2;">D</span>ragoon <span style="font-family: Oblivion, Daedric Runes; size=2;">W</span>raith]] [[User_talk:DragoonWraith|<span style="font-family: Oblivion, Daedric Runes; size=2;">TALK</span>]] 14:25, 6 October 2008 (EDT)


:::[[User:DragoonWraith|<font face="Oblivion,Daedric Runes" size=2>D</font>ragoon <font face="Oblivion,Daedric Runes" size=2>W</font>raith]] [[User_talk:DragoonWraith|<font face="Oblivion,Daedric" size=2>TALK</font>]] 18:54, 1 October 2006 (EDT): Yes, the article I linked you to is stylistic, without a doubt. For syntax, there's a different article, [[Welcome to Wiki Syntax]] - written at the same time. I would love feedback on either, since it's hard for me to tell if they'll be helpful for someone who doesn't know what I know.
It's been awhile, but what's the new on this ? -- [[User:Shademe|shademe]] 12:37, 11 January 2009 (EST)


:::As for your tutorial, I don't believe I have read it. I made this attempt about a month and a half ago. Due to starting college, I've been less able to keep up with what's been done with the tutorials. As I said, lots of changes have been made, and I haven't read most of them. What I noticed when I did try was that finding information was very difficult, because the tutorials tended to be very scratch-to-finish-y - which is nice if it addresses exactly what you're trying to do, but otherwise, it can be difficult to search through them to find which procedures apply to what you're doing and which don't.
:Bethesda intends to update the Wiki to v1.14 once v1.14 comes out, I believe (v1.14 is currently in beta, and is being used on WikiMedia Foundation sites like Wikipedia); at that point, we'll look into this. Seems like an update needs to happen before most of those will work.
:[[User:DragoonWraith|<span style="font-family: Oblivion, Daedric Runes; size=2;">D</span>ragoon <span style="font-family: Oblivion, Daedric Runes; size=2;">W</span>raith]] [[User_talk:DragoonWraith|<span style="font-family: Oblivion, Daedric Runes; size=2;">TALK</span>]] 12:59, 11 January 2009 (EST)


:::Rather than have each step of your tutorial get a new heading in the article and therefore a new entry in the ToC, it's better to give each step a new ''article'', and link to the next article in the series. This allows the sharing of articles (for instance, an article on how a model is made might end with "If you're making an armor, go to this article on how to weight paint, if you're making a weapon, go here to learn how to UV map (or whatever)" and then the end of the weight painting article could say "continue on to UV mapping" and link to the same article.
It is a rather good idea, as it implements how popular the page is, or how useful it can be, as if it's unpopular people wouldn't often go to it and if it's useless then peopl wouldn't read right through it much, all in all, a splendid idea, as i've seen it on other websites and i find it useful!
--[[User:Oblivious12123|Oblivious12123]] 12:30, 28 December 2009 (EST)


:::This will also allow people to see the steps from the category - the entire tutorial itself should probably start with a Category page, and each step should be listed in that category. That means at the end of each step, there'll be a list of tutorials that use that step, since the page lists all the categories that it's in.
== Heads-up for new users ==


::[[User: SickleYield|SickleYield]] 13:00 1 October 2006 (Pacific Time)
Why not write a bot to automatically add an entry, one that informs them about the wiki's policy on asking questions, to the TALK page of new users ? That could help with keeping down the creation of unnecessary new articles.<br>
[[User:Shademe|shadeMe]] <sup>[[User_talk:Shademe|<span style="font-family: Oblivion, Daedric Runes; size=2;">TALK</span>]]</sup> 18:23, 4 October 2009 (EDT)


::Edit: I found it out. I'd just been using bold formatting to indicate headings, but you have to use a double equals sign, like this: "==" on either side of the heading.  Then the wiki makes a table of contents automatically. I had to bounce around through a lot of links to find this info.  Perhaps we could put it somewhere on this site itself?  Can I do that, or is it an admin thing?
:Hmm... I'm not certain that the bot's allowed to be "always on" like that. I'm also not certain how to configure it to do that (though I know it can). Hmm... I'll look into it. Typically those things go on their Talk page after they've made their first Edit though.
::I respect and fear the word of the admin.


:::[[User:DragoonWraith|<font face="Oblivion,Daedric Runes" size=2>D</font>ragoon <font face="Oblivion,Daedric Runes" size=2>W</font>raith]] [[User_talk:DragoonWraith|<font face="Oblivion,Daedric" size=2>TALK</font>]] 18:54, 1 October 2006 (EDT): Meh, yeah, the [[Welcome to Wiki Syntax]] article. I hate how difficult it is to find that... but I can't think of what more I can do with that. Any suggestions on making that article more easily found by those looking for it?
:Someone want to write a welcome message thing, then?
:[[User:DragoonWraith|<span style="font-family: Oblivion, Daedric Runes; size=2;">D</span>ragoon <span style="font-family: Oblivion, Daedric Runes; size=2;">W</span>raith]] [[User_talk:DragoonWraith|<span style="font-family: Oblivion, Daedric Runes; size=2;">TALK</span>]] 21:12, 31 January 2010 (EST)


::::[[User: SickleYield|SickleYield]] 17:36 1 October 2006 (Pacific Time)
:: Heh, it'd probably be more of a "go away" message. In any case, I'm willing to try.<br>
::[[User:Shademe|shadeMe]] <sup>[[User_talk:Shademe|<span style="font-family: Oblivion, Daedric Runes; size=2;">TALK</span>]]</sup> 21:29, 31 January 2010 (EST)


::::Why not link directly to that from the "toolbox" box and call it something more direct, like "Writing a Wiki Page," that any beginner can understand?  What could possibly be a more important tool than the actual directions for using the Wiki?  I started from knowing nothing and it took me some time to figure out how to use things, but maybe I'm just a slow learner. :)
:::I did some <nowiki>"research"</nowiki> about bots on some other wiki's and I found an article containing a script that welcomes new users ([http://botwiki.sno.cc/wiki/Python:Welcome.py here]). That page seemed to be part of an entire wiki about bots:([http://botwiki.sno.cc/wiki/Main_Page here]).


:::::[[User:DragoonWraith|<font face="Oblivion,Daedric Runes" size=2>D</font>ragoon <font face="Oblivion,Daedric Runes" size=2>W</font>raith]] [[User_talk:DragoonWraith|<font face="Oblivion,Daedric" size=2>TALK</font>]] 20:41, 1 October 2006 (EDT): Yeah, unfortunately I can't change that, only the admins can. As the admins haven't actually paid any attention to this place in months, that's not likely to happen. One of the devs even told me that he thought one (or more) people from the community should be given some admin privileges, but that idea was apparently nixed at some point. I can understand that, for security reasons, that they can't let us change some things, but if they're going to do that, it seems to me that they have something of a responsibility to be around to change it themselves when warranted. Unfortunately, they seem to disagree.
:::I hope this information helps.<br>
:::--[[User:Darkness X|Darkness X]] 11:12, 5 May 2010 (EDT)


:::::By the way, I just want to make sure, you saw the other half of my response? I kind of split your last post in half and addressed each individually, want to make sure that you're following the discussion correctly (because as TheImperialDragon mentioned, it's gotten pretty convoluted).
== Ideas to support newbies: ==


The front page displays the featured article, which at the moment is 'a beginners' guide' right?


::::[[User: SickleYield|SickleYield]] 19:36 1 October 2006 (Pacific Time)
So when a new featured article gets chosen, the newbies may get stuck looking for basic tutorials.
Maybe we should keep the beginners' guide on the main page, after a new featured article is selected. It would make things simpler for newbies and more convenient and less frustrating and time consuming...
--[[User:Oblivious12123|Oblivious12123]] 12:25, 28 December 2009 (EST)


::::No, actually, I only just saw that second part. Thanks for pointing it out.
''New ideas to support newbies should be left in this section, not a new one, please leave a line and start anew, then reinsert this piece of writing at the bottom of your work''


::::The thing is that I don't actually agree completely.  My preference in tutorials for my own use is always for a complete process - I hate to be jumping around all over the place.  This is particularly true for those of us using dialup who have to invest a LOT more time the more links there are. That's why "three dozen links to short pages" is not necessarily always preferable to "very large block of text." Then the dialup-constrained modder can copy and paste the longer tutorial structure and use it when they're not online.
:That's a pretty good idea. Currently, though, I don't think the Beginner's Guide is in much danger of being shuffled off... *shrug* When we're looking to change it, yes, I think that's a good plan.
:[[User:DragoonWraith|<span style="font-family: Oblivion, Daedric Runes; size=2;">D</span>ragoon <span style="font-family: Oblivion, Daedric Runes; size=2;">W</span>raith]] [[User_talk:DragoonWraith|<span style="font-family: Oblivion, Daedric Runes; size=2;">TALK</span>]] 21:10, 31 January 2010 (EST)


::::I've also had the frustration of piecing together bits from lots of different tutorials in order to make my armor and weapons, so I'm not thrilled with that either. :)
== May 28, 2011 MediaWiki Update ==
The Wiki has, for the first time in a ''long'' time, had its version of MediaWiki updated. This is wonderful news, generally speaking.


:::::[[User:DragoonWraith|<font face="Oblivion,Daedric Runes" size=2>D</font>ragoon <font face="Oblivion,Daedric Runes" size=2>W</font>raith]] [[User_talk:DragoonWraith|<font face="Oblivion,Daedric" size=2>TALK</font>]] 23:40, 1 October 2006 (EDT): Hmm... something I hadn't considered, there. In general, Wikis are not great for dial-up users. At least, they tend to be small pages - few involve many pictures, and there's no scripting or other craziness going on at all, so that helps. How long do these pages take to load on a dial-up modem? I have no idea.
Unfortunately, it seems to have broken the Liquid Style custom CSS, and there may be a few niggling details that need to be fixed as well. Please post anything you find odd here; I'll try to communicate this with Bethsoft.


:::::Anyway, it is conceivable to write a tutorial as separate pages, and then copy and paste all of them together in a larger version (printer-friendly version?), simply removing the links in between them. That's not a lot of work relative to the actual creation of the tutorial, I think. Then again, I'm not writing it. If you're interested in doing that, though, I could help with that.
List of issues:
* The box around categories look very odd, and it's there even if a page does not have any categories.
* Custom signatures appear to have been reset and their maximum length reduced. At least, mine was too long and was reset, but it may have only been reset ''because'' it was too long.
* Liquid Style custom skin needs to be updated.


:::::Another thing to consider is that Wikis have issues with articles larger than a certain size on some browsers. I don't really know the details, but apparently at some point certain browsers will cut off the plaintext version when editting. I don't know which browsers or when this happens, though. Wikipedia makes something of an issue of it (which is why Wikis give you that "This page is over 30k, consider chopping it up"), but that's as much for stylistic (encyclopedia articles that large are just unweildy) and historical (older versions of the Wiki software literally couldn't handle an article larger than 35k or something, for anyone, but this is not true any longer) reasons as it is for technical reasons.
That last one is obviously not Bethesda's problem, heh. I'll be trying to fix that.<br/>
[[User:DragoonWraith|<span style="font-family: Oblivion; size=2;">D</span>ragoon <span style="font-family: Oblivion; size=2;">W</span>raith]] [[User_talk:DragoonWraith|<span style="font-family: Oblivion; size=2;">TALK</span>]] 17:43, 28 May 2011 (EDT)


[[User: SickleYield|SickleYield]] 11 October 2006 11:51 Pacific
:This is good news, I guess. For anyone else wondering; we're now running 1.16.5, which is the most recent stable version of MediaWiki. The GECK Wiki is still running 1.13.2 which was released in October 2008.
:If I can, I'll take some time to look into the liquid style.
:--[[User:Qazaaq|Qazaaq]] 11:11, 30 May 2011 (EDT)


In case anyone was wondering, I now have a New Shield in Blender and New Sword in Blender tutorial up.  Neither is long enough to give any warnings on my home dialup browser, so I'm leaving them as one piece with tables of contents.
== Search is broken ==


I've also got one in progress for teaching people to make better retextures using the tools in GIMP.
Every time I try to search for anything, it brings me to a blank page. Can someone please do something about it? - [[User:ZuTheSkunk|ZuTheSkunk]] ([[User talk:ZuTheSkunk|talk]]) 14:14, 11 December 2014 (EST)


Hehe, good old GIMP.  :) I use that all the time, works much better than a lot of those more complex programs I tell you. There are a lot of tools for GIMP that a lot of people probably don't know about it... ;) Yeah, would probably help a lot of people. [[User:TheImperialDragon|The Imperial Dragon]] 18:13, 17 October 2006 (EDT)
== Need to replace the captcha system ==


== Humiliated fraternity boys sue 'Borat'  ==
The captcha system (used to weed out bots when trying to create an account, and to submit an edit) is hosed.


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* When it does, it almost always presents a picture-moving puzzle, which is not functional in Chrome, or any other browser I tried other than an old copy of Internet Explorer.  So, I cannot edit this site other than by resorting the worst browser on earth, which is now old Microsoft abandonware that won't even work in future versions of Windows.  Just get the regular captcha that 99% of captcha-using sites use, "I am not a robot".  I works universally.
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== Minimum wage stresses some firms ==
[[User:Darklocq|Darklocq]] ([[User talk:Darklocq|talk]]) 03:50, 9 May 2018 (EDT)


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Oh, hell, it's even worse than I thought. I can't edit actual articles here, only talk pages, because the articles are using a different captcha that even fails in IE. It's the "pick all squares with street signs" one. After you successfully do it, you're returned to the page, but minus the edits you just made, and you try to do them again, the same thing happens. I just tried 5 times in a row to fix a typo, and can't do it.  No wonder no one's editing this site any longer.  It's broken.  PS: It's taken me at least 20 tries, in IE, to even save this comment. [[User:Darklocq|Darklocq]] ([[User talk:Darklocq|talk]]) 04:12, 9 May 2018 (EDT)
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