Talk:Main Page/Archive 01

The existing game?

Is this wiki a suitable place for discussing bugs/oddities with the engine, or the main Oblivion game? I realise these may not really be editing-related.. If not, is there a wiki that is suitable? Moo 14:47, 25 March 2006 (EST)

This wiki is a reference for The Construction Set and mods. Our official forums are where discussions on engine/game related bugs and quirks should be discussed. Ashileedo 14:27, 26 Mar 2006

UESP Oblivion. You can start the Glitches/Goofs page starting from the link a the bottom. If there's a problem with the engine itself, in regards to modding, that should probably go on the Tes4Mod section. You should look in the corresponding sections of the Morrowindpages for similar pages and follow the lead. (Hmmm... Though I would have thought that glitches in the game engine would be reasonable to put here -- since modders need to work around them while working in CS4.) --Wrye 00:56, 27 March 2006 (EST)

Good point about putting engine issues on here as it could be useful -- My concern is that a list of issues with the game and engine here could turn into a point of contention and attract vandalism. As long as the tone is factual and neutral, should be okay. I would strongly suggest that anything documented must be verified by the contributor themselves or can be based on our readme documentation but not based off forum posts which can be unreliable. We want people to be able to trust what they read is factual and has been verified. Ashileedo 10:28, 27 Mar 2006

I would suggest something like an editors page (might the same as the Help:Editing page). Site policy (what does and doesn't belong, plus standards for addition can be listed there). When listing what doesn't belong (e.g., mod lists, mod ideas(?)), you could also provide links to wikis/sites that are intended for that (and the forums, of course). Also, for page specific formatting and rules, you can put a "Style and Content" section at the top of the talk page (e.g., Uesp Scripting Pitfalls Talk.) --Wrye 11:38, 27 March 2006 (EST)

Looking for something like this: Standards and Policies? It isn't very easy to find at the moment, though.

More Tutorials Please

I loved the create a dungeon tutorial, I wish there were more intermediate tutorials. I've been messing around with the editor and but learning on my own is slow and cumbersome. Do any other good editing resources exist? FViral 17:42, 26 March 2006 (EST)

I also thought that the "My First Dungeon" tutorial was excellent, but we need to expand on it and add more. One on basic quests, scripting, havok, etc would be great. I already have a fairly cool dungeon laid out, but I am not sure where to go with the NPC quests for it. Also, does anyone know how to include havok'd rocks in a project?

--Void Main() 00:52, 27 March 2006 (EST)

For my part, I'd like a tutorial on creating shopkeepers - I figure just about everyone is going to be creating dungeons, so I'd play around with something different. I'd also really like if, when Bethesda releases everything necessary for full creation of armor/clothing, someone could post a MAX file of something generic with all the settings correct so I could open it up and look at it. An ideal situation would be Bethesda actually posting one or more of the MAX files used to create the master file...

Aesirgard 12:35, 7 April 2006 (EDT)

I plan on releasing a tutorial explaining how I did my mod when it's finished. It'll cover some scripting, dialogue options, and NPC creation. Sockmonkeh 12:58, 7 April 2006 (EDT)

-Criss It would be nice with a detailed tutorial that showed you how to create new races and stuff.

-Bobman I think it would be cool if there were another scripting tutorial to help learn some new commands. I really liked the first one but I wish there were more.

Sickleyield 11 October 2006 (Pacific)

I think we could definitely use a few more "scripting for dummies" tutorials. I've been trying to teach myself some basic scripting, but I'm not a programmer, and a good 80% of the discussion on this wiki (that isn't in the "useful functions" page with the ubersimple instructions) is utter Greek to me. So far I can do message boxes and OnActivate and that's really it.

I'm working on a "Better Retexes" tutorial (this being an actual TUTORIAL, not a long harangue like that "advice for modders" one that circulated for a while), but I suspect the people I hope will read it probably won't.  :)

Offline Help

Is there a way to download this Wiki or offer it for download so that those without internet access 24/7 can still get help when modding, if it was html a simple downloader would work, but its php and I can not find one suited for it.

Thanks StaticNation 4:55 AM 28 March 2006 (CST)

Well, the problem with that is that a Wiki is always changing, and at this point the TESCSWiki is far from complete. --JT 14:07, 31 March 2006 (EST)

I'm in the same situation as StaticNation, i can only access this page from the computer (in a different house), but this is unable to run oblivion or CS, so all my editing has to be done elsewhere. Even though the wiki is always changing and is still incomplete it would still be helpful, and i do belive wikipedia has an ability to download its current archives onto your PC, and since this is based on the same technology as far as i know, would this be possible? --Yacob I too am suffering from the lack of internet and am only able to gain accses about once or twice a week. I understand the fact that a wiki is and will always be changing but if we could simply get an up to date, dowloadable version of the various tutorials or even just the main tutorial it would greatly help. If anyone knows any information about how to download all the files in one go, PLEASE post that info here for all to see. --Ccdemon If you are using InternetExplorer on a Windows XP machine and all you want to do is get the tutorials then pull up each page individualy and then go file>save as... then name it and select "web archive, single file" from the 'save as type' dropdown. It takes a while as you have to save each page individualy but I think that may be the only way you can get it for now... Dunno if this will work on non Win-XP machines. --RazielT There is a MUCH better way of doing this instead of downloading each page individually. There is a free windows utility for doing just this. It is downloadable from http://www.httrack.com. You point it to the main page and tell it to go, and it will mirror the entire site to your hard drive. --sythe01

Althomas 12:44, October 11, 2006: A fully populated downloadable command/function reference explaining syntax and what it does is desparately needed. Please excuse me from standing on my soap box. While having a Wiki as a community repository for instructions on how to do things is nice, A utility with this level of complexity should have included a .chm file or at least an indexed .pdf Just setting up a Wiki and not populating much in it, is hardly supporting the mod community.

Dragoon Wraith TALK 14:53, 11 October 2006 (EDT): The thing is, Bethesda doesn't have that documentation. They wrote the thing, they know how to make it do what they need it to do. And their policy on "supporting the mod community" is that they will give us what they have, but they will not do anything just for us. Which is frustrating as anything, but it's not wise to expect anything of them. This Wiki is a massive improvement over what we got for Morrowind. The guide to that was incomplete and often inaccurate. Something similar to this Wiki was made, but it was a PDF compiled by one guy, and uploaded to various mod sites. This allows far better distribution of knowledge as it is discovered. Take that as you will.

For the record, there is probably more information about the TESCS and scripting on this website that Beth almost certainly never realized than there is actual additions by Bethesda.

Bethesda Editors?

I'd really like to see an official page that lists all the official Bethesda editors. The page should be locked. As TESIV ages, the developers will have less and less input on the CS. When comparing revisions of documents on here, it would be nice to know that certain users were official Bethesda authors, versus someone adding into their User page Bethesda level designer or such, even if they aren't. An official locked page would remedy this problem (and it will happen, it always does on larger Wikis). Daego 11:57, 28 March 2006 (EST)

Admins list

--Kkuhlmann 13:32, 28 March 2006 (EST): List of admins (this is linked from the Standards and Policies page, which might be what someone else was asking about).

what's the difference between a sysop and Bearucrat? (sp?) Stormscape

That's wiki admin stuff. Bureaucrats have the ability to raise other users to sysops. See MediaWiki for more info. --Wrye 19:01, 29 March 2006 (EST)

Adding new pages?

Can we add new pages/categories/etc to the Wiki? I haven't figured out how, but in particular I think that .ini mods and .xml mods need sections for them, since they are probably the most popular mods right now, and are going to continue to be important. They're also something that the average person would be very interested in tweaking for their own preferences, and so this Wiki definitely ought to have sections for them. Does anyone know if we can add them, and if so, how? And if not, why not? And if not, can Beth do it for us, please?

--Kkuhlmann 16:08, 30 March 2006 (EST)Anyone can add a new page by simply typing the URL, and editing the blank page that comes up. You'll need to put a Category:XXX link at the bottom of new pages if you want anyone to find them (preferred), or link them directly from another page (usually not preferred).

Adding potentially obvious instructions?

I was flipping through some of the character settings in the editor and was looking at adding a Birthsign and couldn't figure out how I was supposed to get spells in the list. After a minute or two, it occurred to me to go look through the objects list instead of magic efects. Then you just drag and drop a spell from there. Arguably, it didn't take me long and would be completely obvious to some people. So my question is whether or not adding these kinds of potentially obvious instructions would be frowned upon for cluttering up the Wiki or some such.

If not, should they be contained on directly on that page or a page linked under it? Gunslinger 19:12, 31 March 2006 (EST)

Lacking useful functions

I've been browsing through the list of functions, and I'm surprised that some obvious ones seem to be missing. One thing is, there are no alchemy functions. Another, more surprising is that there are no angle/radius positioning functions, apart from PlaceAtMe, which creates a new instance.

You can get a heading and distance to something, but you can't position objects by them, so you can't e.g. move an existing object to be in front of the player or another actor. There also seems to be no way to tell actors to simply move a distance ahead. It seems that the only way that this can be done now is using trigonometry, but of course, there are no trigonometry functions.

Is there a wishlist for the next version/expansion? EagleEye 09:50, 1 April 2006 (EST)

Square root also seems to be gone :(EagleEye

UESP Wiki has some math approximations: Math Functions. Sqrt not included since they're for Morrowind, which has sqrt. --Wrye 00:38, 2 April 2006 (EST)

--Kkuhlmann 09:43, 4 April 2006 (EDT): There are a number of position functions: SetAngle, SetPos, PositionCell, PositionWorld. Using these on actors, however, can lead to unexpected results (they may still think they are somewhere else). Actors should be controlled using packages.

Jaks 13:50, 4 April 2006 (EDT): Not sure thats always possible. Packages, at least in this early stage of my learning curve, seem VERY limiting. Its difficult to integrate them with in with scripts and their needed timings for intricate manueverings of NPCs. I tend to think of packages as daily routines for the AI to go about their business but quests and player interaction, in my eyes, should use scripts to override those routines. On the other hand, the script API does provide the ability to add and remove packages on the fly, so maybe a combination (much like the recently released HorseCommands mod does) is the better choice. In the end though, I do not think packages provide for the level of detail this request is asking for.

--Kkuhlmann 16:50, 7 April 2006 (EDT): Well, we managed to put together a number of rather intricate scenes using the same tools you have available to you -- charactergen, for example. Every staged scene in the main quest. Do I wish we had better tools? Sure. But I think you need to look at some of the scripts and NPC packages used in charactergen (for example) before you decide that packages are "very limiting".

Known Issues

Doppelganger 18:58, 3 April 2006 (EDT): "Data race" was in fact undocumented modifiers on the ModActorValue function, now documented by one of the people in the know. The difficulty, however, in getting this information was altogether too much...

/signed, we need an area to report issues and verify them as known. Nowhere does it say that the script compiler/editor will silently fail to compile a script with mismatching parens () .. I just spent an hour looking for a syntax error, it turned out to be a missing open paren, the script editor silently failed with no warning when compiling the script - it just refused to save my changes. I'd like to save other people this headache. --Halo112358 22:09, 2 April 2006 (EDT)

--Kkuhlmann 09:49, 4 April 2006 (EDT): Re: silently failing -- The compiler will throw up a warning over any compile error. Is it possible that you already clicked "Yes to All" to a previous warning (which would turn off all warnings for your current session)? Check the EditorWarnings.txt in the editor's folder -- you'll see the warnings there even if you turned off the popup.

--Gerrie Hi, dont know where else i should put this: Error Message: "Warning: Unable to complete operation due to failure removing previous tempfile remains. Continue playing? "Yes to all" will disable warnings this session." This means some application is still using your plugin file and the construction set fails to save your new version. Be careful not to press "Yes", as all your following saves will get lost with no error message. To solve this: Close your programs and reboot, when you get the errormessage for the first time. Does anybody know a better workaround, so you dont lose your newest save?

-- Wouldn't a known issues / bug report category be useful (linked from the main index? --GhanBuriGhan 17:20, 25 July 2006 (EDT)

Settings Documentation

The settings page is home to many variables useful for tweaking gameplay easily. However, many of these variables have cryptic names and/or implementation. Would it be possible for developers to take some time detailing some of these settings and their affect on gameplay?

--ZantarV

Bethesda and mod developers releasing mods

Does Bethesda have a system in place for mod devs to launch a mod, and get payment for it (with security in place), as Bethesda is doing with their own mods? Just like Valve has for its huge mod community with HL/HL2 over Steam? Skjalg 14:40, 4 April 2006 (EDT)

I doubt it. If you read the license agreement, any mods created using the construction set are property of Bethesda. BCampbell 12:59, 5 April 2006 (EDT)

Site skin does not display properly on Mac Safari (10.4.5)

Hello all,

This site does not display properly on Mac OS X (PowerPC) 10.4.5 Safari web browser.

Here's a cropped screenshot:

File:Bad-render.png

Note that the sidebar (Navigation, Toolbox, Search, Personal Tools) seems to overdraw the rest of the page.

Thanks!

Callie 18:08, 4 April 2006 (EDT)

It's a problem with the javascript, apparently. I tried to do some troubleshooting on it thinking it was a stylesheet bug. I wasn't having problems with a local version, so I turned off javascript (using Shiira, it renders with Apple's WebKit) and it worked fine. Alternatively, you can use the other skin. Gunslinger 12:15, 5 April 2006 (EDT)

How can I add pages to the Index?

I created a "Questions" category that I think would be helpful to people with questions. Answered questions we can then move to the "Solutions" category. However, I cannot seem to figure out how to get my newly made category linked to the main index.

--Kkuhlmann 13:24, 8 April 2006 (EDT): Good idea. Done!

--Brainspackle 13:29, 8 April 2006 (EDT): Very nice! Good response time too, thanks. ;)

Categories Page is Helpful

I have found this page to be quite helpful: http://cs.elderscrolls.com/constwiki/index.php?title=Special:Categories

However, it is hard for me to find that page easily, as it does not seem to be linked from anywhere. I am not even quite sure how I originally found it.

--Kkuhlmann 13:25, 8 April 2006 (EDT): If you click on the "Category" link at the bottom of any page in a category, you'll go to the full list of categories.

--Moose 16:42, 10 April 2006 (EDT): That's one of the special pages Wikis put in by default. And they appear to all be gone when I try to go to the listing. Any particular reason? Just wondering.

The reason is that the specials pages is bugged in this wiki. if you refresh the page just long enough , the list of special pages appears. Vvenaya 16:55, 10 April 2006 (EDT)

Moose 17:07, 10 April 2006 (EDT): Weak. Any idea as to why it's happening?

--Brainspackle 13:30, 8 April 2006 (EDT): Thanks for the clarification. Wikis have a bit of a learning curve.

Tutorials versus Solutions

I just noticed that we have both a Category:Tutorials and Category:Solutions. I can understand why we would want both, but maybe we should define what tutorials and solutions are so we don't get tutorials in the solutions category and not under tutorials? Mrflippy 16:16, 8 April 2006 (EDT)

--Kkuhlmann 08:53, 10 April 2006 (EDT): My view is that a tutorial is a step-by-step guide to doing a general task in the editor: building a dungeon, creating a worldspace, creating a quest, etc. A "Solution" is a specific method for doing some tricky or obscure task -- a way to prevent others from having to "reinvent the wheel" whenever they try to do the same thing. Maybe they do overlap more than I think -- if the general consensus is that they are redundant, we can always fold them together into the same category ("Tutorials and Solutions").

No, I think it's a good idea to have both categories. We just need definitions for organization's sake. I think your definition is pretty good. In some cases the categories may overlap, but in that case we can just add a page to both categories. --Mrflippy 17:08, 10 April 2006 (EDT)

Discussing GUI/HUD mods

Would it be appropriate to add sections for GUI/HUD mods, even though these mods don't directly involve the CS? For example, BTMod deals almost exclusively with editing XML files unpacked from the misc.bsa file. Although these files aren't accessible from the CS, documenting their structure and functionality would bee a huge boon to the modding community, as BTMod is perhaps the most popular Oblivion mod right now, and those XML files are very complicated and deceptively powerful. --Mrdowns 10:16, 12 April 2006 (EDT)

If it's not appropriate here, we'll be glad to have it at UESP Wiki! We've already got a little material like that at: Oblivion Modding (look for File Formats section). I've got a little info on my own site too Oblivion Configuration which I'll merge into UESP wiki when I have some time. --Wrye 18:43, 12 April 2006 (EDT)

I had asked the same question in the questions section just yesterday. I think this information would be useful to modders.

Wish list link

There should be a link on the main page to the Wish List. --Maian 21:32, 16 April 2006 (EDT)

Styles need work/horizontal scrolling is EVIL

Hi there,

with Firefox 1.5.0.2 on Windows XP I have to scroll horizontally to view the text. I'm not particularily fond of maximizing the browser just to view a web page, and would like to configure the browser window size to my preferences, not to the web page authors idea of workflow. Please don't do the fixed-width thing.

I resorted to the alternative style, which looks rather poor. It should have a different background (darktan_bg.jpg, paper + MediaWiki style don't work very well together) and a different logo (banner.jpg), which is displayed behind the text frame. I just adblocked that one, resulting in an empty space where the pages logo should be.

Thanks & best regards.

This isn't specific to Firefox - does the same thing in IE. --Maian 06:37, 4 May 2006 (EDT)

The site is designed for a minimum width of about 1000px. At 1024x768 resolution, that means maximizing the page. At 800x600, I imagine, it wouldn't fit even maximized. This was a decision made by the site designers, and its a decision the designers of most sites must make, though most try to make the minimum width about 800px...--DragoonWraith 22:56, 13 May 2006 (EDT)

For my browsing, I seldom use less than 1600px in the horizontal resolution. While horizontal scrolling is evil, wasting about 50% of my screen space (at the lowest resolution I use) for black borders is nontheless highly annoying. The web site designers of the elderscrolls.com should really learn their job and look up "fluid design" sometime. Thankfully, they left the Monobook CSS mostly intact, which means I don't have to write my own style into User:(myusername)/Monobook.css ... --Khadir 11:30, 21 June 2006 (EDT)

... which doesn't work here anyway, it seems. Why is $wgAllowUserCss disabled, exactly? --Khadir 11:43, 21 June 2006 (EDT)

StartYourMod

I made a tutorial which I think is an important one, but i didn't realise that it didn;t go in the tutorial section of the wiki. StartYourMod if someone could move it and my first discussion item attached I would appreciate it.

Dragoon Wraith TALK 13:35, 1 June 2006 (EDT): I moved it to Start Your Mod, since it didn't make sense for it to not have spaces, and I added it to the Category:Tutorials category. I also explained how these things are done on its Talk page.

Claim cell ownership in the Tamriel world space

Well, since this is the place most modders go to after the TES forums, how about doing a page where people can make claims to certain cells. Then this info could go into their documentation. Those modmakers who don't use this will at least alert people to the fact that it might conflict with any number of mods. Unless this is already up and working and I'm too stupid to find it - the navigation of this site leaves something to be desired :-) tho' it is getting better. Franc Kaos.

IMO there isn't much reason to claim cells in Tamriel, make new Worldspaces instead.--JOG 04:20, 18 June 2006 (EDT)

Dragoon Wraith TALK 13:01, 13 July 2006 (EDT): "Claim" isn't a good idea, either. Would be nice to have a repository of this data, though. Even with the existance of new worldspaces, it's good to know for people who specifically add things to Cyrodiil.

ShadowDancer 08:19, 15 July 2006 (EDT): I agree that it would be nice to have a repository of this data. The only problem is that anyone who doesn't know about it won't add in any world space that they have used. It would also be nice if it were standard to add altered cell info as a comment in the summary window on the plugin file. I think that it is more likely that the plugin file would be done by modders if they are told about it than adding that info to a page in the wiki. Ideally, both would be done, and info about changed world spaces would be included in the description of the downloadable file. If modders could be brought to see this as a requirement (or at least good etiquette) it would work nicely for other modders.

Rather than claim ownership, make it Modifies Worldspaces: I would go so far as to say that there should be a page for Modding Etiquette already. Include in it how to clean up your mod and anything else along those lines, including things like not compiling all of the scripts into your mod, etc. Basically all the things that someone who hasn't done a mod before needs to know in order to not cause problems for other modders or mod users.

Articles for Deletion Category

It would be quite useful if an administrator could list the "Category:Articles for Deletion" page on the main page, or at least review it -- as that was the intention: for administrators to review it and delete pages that get categorized under it. --MaXiMiUS 20:21, 25 June 2006 (EDT)

"Create a login"

As any geek or wiki user would tell you, that is a horribly stupid phrase. It should read "create an account". "Login" is a verb, not a noun. Aaa 02:46, 26 June 2006 (EDT)

Question about the History lists

In the History of a page, and on the Recent Changes page, there's an exclamation point (!) next to some of the edits. I was wondering what that signified?

I know that 'N' means "new" and 'm' means "minor", but I haven't seen an explanation of the !.

ShadowDancer 13:46, 13 July 2006 (EDT): The exclaimation point indicate articles that are not patrolled. When you click on (diff) it shows you the revisions box with previous things for that edit in the yellow boxes, new things in the green boxes, and things in red are changed items. In that box under the name of the person who made that edit is [Mark as patrolled] which when clicked removes the exclaimation point from the recent changes page. New pages don't have a (diff) selection because they are new, but if you click on the link to that page from the recent changes list, there is [Mark this article as patrolled] down on the lower right corner which does the same thing when you click on it. Anytime someone looks at that article and verifies that that change wasn't spam should click on [Mark as patrolled] so that it is known that the changes are OK. It should also be done to article changes that are reverted or removed so that everyone knows that that particular change has been checked. See also: How to Mark an Article as Patrolled.

I haven't seen a history page with the exclaimation point. Can you point one out?

Dragoon Wraith TALK 16:07, 13 July 2006 (EDT): Er. No. Maybe I just thought they were there, I didn't actually check. Anyway, thank you for answering my question.

Change Tutorial links?

To finish rearranging the tutorial subcategory organization, could we change the links to the tutorials on the main page to the "article version" - then I could delete those subcategories. While at that, the "A beginners guide" and "Basic NPC" tutorials would deserve a direct link as well.--GhanBuriGhan 14:23, 2 August 2006 (EDT)

For now I have used redirects.--GhanBuriGhan 14:36, 2 August 2006 (EDT)

Welcome to the Wiki and Welcome to Wiki Syntax

Dragoon Wraith TALK 13:22, 16 August 2006 (EDT): I wrote fairly comprehensive guides to this Wiki and on Wiki syntax in general (far surpassing anything else I've found here), and I was wondering if these could be added to the Main Page somehow? I've had a number of people mention that they couldn't find them.

Spam Stays Out

Spam stays off this wiki. If you must advertise for your unbelievable flawless-beautiful-powerful-uber-superior product, then it doesn't belong here. By putting a comment or whatever here, you are not only violating the rules of the wiki, but taking unnecessary webspace, providing a hassle for the people who moderate this wiki, and taking away from our hobby/job. If it has nothing to do with the CS or modding for TES, then it does not belong here, so do NOT advertise here. Spammers will be labelled as so. Violators of the wiki will recieve permanent IP bans from this wiki.

Here is the editting policy rule number one:

1. Only add appropriate content. The Construction Set Wiki is intended as a repository of knowlege about using the TES IV Construction Set and modding TES IV Oblivion. Material that does not fit this goal should be moved to another fan site, or removed altogether.

Dragoon Wraith TALK 21:01, 14 September 2006 (EDT): Of course, most 'spammers' are probably just robots anyway, and regardless, every spammer knows damn well that it doesn't belong here. They're paid by the number of links they send pack to the company their advertising for. The only real solution is to just delete those links when they're created.

I don't understand why anyone would hire these people, though. Do they honestly think that people are actually going to click on those links?

Well, you know there are lurkers out there, just randomly browsing the web. Idle passers-by I guess, and when they post on abandoned forums or stuff, then there's really nobody to take the link out, and random people might find it, get curious, click... I don't know, I don't actually click on any of the links unless I'm positive it relates to something I'm looking for. Anyway, some spammer guy posting underneath this would still look funny, demonstrating how spammers really couldn't care less or be more ignorant. :P Ah, this probably won't do much, but the points still stand, and so forth. I think I'll try to contact one of the Beaurocrats (admins) of this wiki over on the ESF, see if they can't set someone else up as a sysop (moderator?). The Imperial Dragon 21:58, 14 September 2006 (EDT)

What I'm trying to say is we need more moderators!

Dragoon Wraith TALK 22:17, 14 September 2006 (EDT): For what it's worth, Beth agrees with you on that one. J.B mentioned that in response to a question I had about editting the Main Page in his thread on ObMod.

Interest in Modeling Tutorial?

SickleYield 11:11 29 September 2006

I made a new tutorial here for setting up a new shield mesh in Blender, since the only available one was for 3dsMax. (It seems odd to me that so few of the good tutorials are for opensource programs, given that opensource is all most of us can afford.) If I were to make a tutorial for, say, creating and setting up a new cuirass from Blender, could I post it on this wiki? It would only involve the CS in the last few steps, so I'm not totally sure if that would be appropriate. On the other hand, it would reach a wider audience of potential future armormakers.

Thoughts?

Dragoon Wraith TALK 22:35, 29 September 2006 (EDT): As you can see here, there are lots of modelling tutorials here - and we need more! Seriously, in general the tutorial section of this site needs work (well, it did last I checked, which was admittedly quite a long time ago and I know a number of them have seen a lot of revision since then), so work in that area would be greatly appreciated.

SickleYield 12:28 30 September 2006 (EDT)

Actually, no, there are not lots of modeling tutorials. I originally came to this site months and months ago going, "I want to make armor!" only to discover that what's here is more along the lines of, "Here's how to make retexes!" The tutorials do seem to mostly be for very specific things (critters, robes under armor) that aren't what most modders will want to make. For someone like me - though I know everyone has their own taste - the game doesn't need three billion new colors, it needs three billion new meshes. And I've noticed people who know how to model aren't all that eager to make tutorials. I can understand that, because modeling is complex, but I'll go ahead and start a clothes/armor-modeling tutorial in my spare time. I think we really need a good UV map/Original texture tutorial, since that skill is even rarer and no less difficult than modeling. I'm not sure when I'll fit all this in, but I'll try.

Hi there, please note that the processes of doing things you describe are still very much in development. E.g. the process to make a new creature with a new skeleton is about 2 weeks old. It's no wonder there are only a few tutorials around.

What I'd like to have would be a simple MAKE UR OWN SWOOOORD!!-type tutorial for Blender I could point people on the forum to who want start with modelling.

If you want to take it upon yourself to write a tutorial, please just start with it! Any new tutorial for whatever creative will be much appreciated!

Regars! Fragment 18:55, 30 September 2006 (EDT)

Dragoon Wraith TALK 20:06, 30 September 2006 (EDT): Please read Welcome to the Wiki, too, most notably the section on the "Greatness of a Wiki" - it was actually written after I became frustrated with the modelling tutorials we have here, which are difficult to follow and spread information all over the place where it's hard to find what you're looking for.

*Enters this big and long list of questions*, This page could also use some re-formatting. Dragoon, what program do you use for modelling? The Imperial Dragon 21:37, 30 September 2006 (EDT)

Dragoon Wraith TALK 18:54, 1 October 2006 (EDT): Attempted Blender. Wasn't half-bad with it (got through Blender n00b-to-Pro, which I've heard others say is a bit much for a beginner, I dunno - I can follow instructions, I guess), but I couldn't for the life of me get anything in game.

SickleYield 18:04 30 September 2006 (EDT)

Okay, I'll try and create a sword one first. It's far easier than armor because there's no weight painting. Dragoon, have you seen my shield tutorial? Was there a problem with that? I read the Wiki section you reference before I put up the tutorial and tried to follow it, it's just that it's a complex subject. It has subheadings, but I can't figure out how to do table of contents. Are there instructions for that anywhere? For that matter, some of these format coding things are really what I need to know, but most of the advice seems of the broad and stylistic kind like, "Don't write an article no one can read," rather than "type the following to create a table of contents."

Dragoon Wraith TALK 18:54, 1 October 2006 (EDT): Yes, the article I linked you to is stylistic, without a doubt. For syntax, there's a different article, Welcome to Wiki Syntax - written at the same time. I would love feedback on either, since it's hard for me to tell if they'll be helpful for someone who doesn't know what I know.

As for your tutorial, I don't believe I have read it. I made this attempt about a month and a half ago. Due to starting college, I've been less able to keep up with what's been done with the tutorials. As I said, lots of changes have been made, and I haven't read most of them. What I noticed when I did try was that finding information was very difficult, because the tutorials tended to be very scratch-to-finish-y - which is nice if it addresses exactly what you're trying to do, but otherwise, it can be difficult to search through them to find which procedures apply to what you're doing and which don't.

Rather than have each step of your tutorial get a new heading in the article and therefore a new entry in the ToC, it's better to give each step a new article, and link to the next article in the series. This allows the sharing of articles (for instance, an article on how a model is made might end with "If you're making an armor, go to this article on how to weight paint, if you're making a weapon, go here to learn how to UV map (or whatever)" and then the end of the weight painting article could say "continue on to UV mapping" and link to the same article.

This will also allow people to see the steps from the category - the entire tutorial itself should probably start with a Category page, and each step should be listed in that category. That means at the end of each step, there'll be a list of tutorials that use that step, since the page lists all the categories that it's in.

SickleYield 13:00 1 October 2006 (Pacific Time)

Edit: I found it out. I'd just been using bold formatting to indicate headings, but you have to use a double equals sign, like this: "==" on either side of the heading. Then the wiki makes a table of contents automatically. I had to bounce around through a lot of links to find this info. Perhaps we could put it somewhere on this site itself? Can I do that, or is it an admin thing?

I respect and fear the word of the admin.

Dragoon Wraith TALK 18:54, 1 October 2006 (EDT): Meh, yeah, the Welcome to Wiki Syntax article. I hate how difficult it is to find that... but I can't think of what more I can do with that. Any suggestions on making that article more easily found by those looking for it?

SickleYield 17:36 1 October 2006 (Pacific Time)

Why not link directly to that from the "toolbox" box and call it something more direct, like "Writing a Wiki Page," that any beginner can understand? What could possibly be a more important tool than the actual directions for using the Wiki? I started from knowing nothing and it took me some time to figure out how to use things, but maybe I'm just a slow learner. :)

Dragoon Wraith TALK 20:41, 1 October 2006 (EDT): Yeah, unfortunately I can't change that, only the admins can. As the admins haven't actually paid any attention to this place in months, that's not likely to happen. One of the devs even told me that he thought one (or more) people from the community should be given some admin privileges, but that idea was apparently nixed at some point. I can understand that, for security reasons, that they can't let us change some things, but if they're going to do that, it seems to me that they have something of a responsibility to be around to change it themselves when warranted. Unfortunately, they seem to disagree.

By the way, I just want to make sure, you saw the other half of my response? I kind of split your last post in half and addressed each individually, want to make sure that you're following the discussion correctly (because as TheImperialDragon mentioned, it's gotten pretty convoluted).

SickleYield 19:36 1 October 2006 (Pacific Time)

No, actually, I only just saw that second part. Thanks for pointing it out.

The thing is that I don't actually agree completely. My preference in tutorials for my own use is always for a complete process - I hate to be jumping around all over the place. This is particularly true for those of us using dialup who have to invest a LOT more time the more links there are. That's why "three dozen links to short pages" is not necessarily always preferable to "very large block of text." Then the dialup-constrained modder can copy and paste the longer tutorial structure and use it when they're not online.

I've also had the frustration of piecing together bits from lots of different tutorials in order to make my armor and weapons, so I'm not thrilled with that either. :)

Dragoon Wraith TALK 23:40, 1 October 2006 (EDT): Hmm... something I hadn't considered, there. In general, Wikis are not great for dial-up users. At least, they tend to be small pages - few involve many pictures, and there's no scripting or other craziness going on at all, so that helps. How long do these pages take to load on a dial-up modem? I have no idea.

Anyway, it is conceivable to write a tutorial as separate pages, and then copy and paste all of them together in a larger version (printer-friendly version?), simply removing the links in between them. That's not a lot of work relative to the actual creation of the tutorial, I think. Then again, I'm not writing it. If you're interested in doing that, though, I could help with that.

Another thing to consider is that Wikis have issues with articles larger than a certain size on some browsers. I don't really know the details, but apparently at some point certain browsers will cut off the plaintext version when editting. I don't know which browsers or when this happens, though. Wikipedia makes something of an issue of it (which is why Wikis give you that "This page is over 30k, consider chopping it up"), but that's as much for stylistic (encyclopedia articles that large are just unweildy) and historical (older versions of the Wiki software literally couldn't handle an article larger than 35k or something, for anyone, but this is not true any longer) reasons as it is for technical reasons.

SickleYield 11 October 2006 11:51 Pacific

In case anyone was wondering, I now have a New Shield in Blender and New Sword in Blender tutorial up. Neither is long enough to give any warnings on my home dialup browser, so I'm leaving them as one piece with tables of contents.

I've also got one in progress for teaching people to make better retextures using the tools in GIMP.

Hehe, good old GIMP.  :) I use that all the time, works much better than a lot of those more complex programs I tell you. There are a lot of tools for GIMP that a lot of people probably don't know about it... ;) Yeah, would probably help a lot of people. The Imperial Dragon 18:13, 17 October 2006 (EDT)

Wiki Search Box

Is there any way to add a "Go" Button to the search box like there is in Wikipedia? Blackblade 15:09, 10 December 2006 (EST)

Wiki doesn't display right in Internet Explorer 7

The entire wiki site doesn't display right in IE7. This is what is displayed:

picture

You can change the skin in the user settings, but can this be fixed another way?