Talk:A beginner's guide, lesson 7 - Using Scripts in Quests

Update

This needs headings, some spelling and grammar errors need to be fixed, and the guide needs to be checked for errors. This is a long guide, so feel free to do what you can and report what you've done here, because no one's ever going to get through this whole thing in one sitting.
Dragoon Wraith TALK 11:42, 20 August 2007 (EDT)

I did a bunch of formatting, mostly on the scripts so that they were consistent (and probably missed a bunch of things). Also put in headers to where I thought they should be. I may have missed more there as well. You get a little bleary eyed when spending that long doing formatting.

--ShadowDancer 14:34, 20 August 2007 (EDT)

I feel like this guide could still use some more separation, it gets a bit wall-of-text-like for large portions of it. More sub-headings would be appropriate. Will attempt to do so myself when I get the chance.

Dragoon Wraith TALK 16:00, 9 April 2008 (EDT)

Some general notes on changes that need to be made... There are a few logic problems in the conditions and scripts, the ID prefix (BG or BGM) hasn't been consistent throughout the tutorial, and there are some omissions. I'll probably fix these myself soon, just leaving this here. --pyrocow 05:11, 11 October 2009 (EDT)

I'm almost finished editing this article. I just need to create a new cave system, as the one provided in the mod files doesn't work (nor do some of the scripts in the "play test" version). A lot of the different pieces are misaligned, and the NPCs can't seem to navigate it. They just flee into the walls. After I'm done I'll upload fully working base/play test mod files. --Pyrocow2 20:33, 6 August 2010 (EDT)

TO DO

1. Go back and edit the faction set up so that Red Rose Brigade members don't kill Brown (the prisoner), and so that Brown doesn't try to fight the player.
2. Get Blair's (the boss) initial conversation to work
3. Improve interactions with Brown. The conversation about whether or not you want to free him should take place while he's still behind bars. If you do free him, he should run to the exit of the cave after thanking you. Save for lesson 8?
4. Go over the last section.
5. Quest targets

--Pyrocow2 14:24, 14 August 2010 (EDT)

Thanks once again for all the amazing work you've done on these!

Dragoon Wraith TALK 16:52, 14 August 2010 (EDT)

Byline

All the Beginner's Guide articles are bylined, I thought we made an exception for these. Did I miss something?

--Qazaaq 15:12, 20 August 2007 (EDT)

I believe that the bylines on the original Beginner's Guide articles were left because they have been on here for so long. Essentially, they were grandfathered in since it was doubtful that the original authors for most of them could be found. All new articles are supposed to not contain bylines (although I believe that mentioning who wrote an article on another site was considered appropriate?). Correct me if I am wrong DragoonWraith.

--ShadowDancer 15:22, 20 August 2007 (EDT)

These articles were written in a way that a person talks to you. Tom Dawson guides you through during these lessons. That's why there was decided not to remove the bylines from these articles. At least that's what I understood, apparently that's not correct.

--Qazaaq 18:07, 20 August 2007 (EDT)

These guides were never mentioned except as an example of "narrative" guides as opposed to "manual" style guides. And while I do not believe it is necessary to remove the bylines, the tag should still remain - these guides should not be frozen, but updated, and the tag explains that to readers. There are a couple of dtom guides that have been updated substantially by people other than dtom before the discussion ever took place - I think perhaps the bylines should be removed from those, because it is no longer truly accurate. Should the same happen here, we should consider removing the bylines.

For now, these are dtom's words, and so the byline should remain. However, I do not believe that guides with a "voice" require a "name" - if you read this without a name attached to it, it still talks to you just as much. Do you know dtom? I don't - it's just the name of a guy who wrote some wonderful guides as far as I know. "Narrative" style guides are not an exception.

Personally, I like the tag as a compromise to those authors who cannot be contacted. To remove the byline without their consent may be very rude, so we can leave it there and use the tag to explain the situation. This seems fair to me.

Perhaps another tag could be made for ESF posts which got transfered to the Wiki for safe-keeping - explaining where they came from originally and such. I'll think about it, and you may certainly have input. This is kind of an awkward transition for content, because you're moving from a very private medium (your posts are very much your words) to a very public medium (the Wiki). When possible, explicit permission is best, but because of the pruning practices on the ESF, sometimes we want to save something by an author we cannot contact. That would be the aim of such a tag.

Anyway, as always, discussion is welcome, but perhaps this ought to continue in the appropriate area of the Community Portal?

Dragoon Wraith TALK 18:21, 20 August 2007 (EDT)

I don't think further discussion is necessary, I didn't think of it this way. I'll add the same tag to lesson 6 I added today. However, dtom is not unreachable, I saw he responded on BSF a few days ago. I sent him a PM about removing the bylines from these two articles.

--Qazaaq 18:54, 20 August 2007 (EDT)

<snip>

I would add that one small advantage of having a byline has been the number of people who have contacted me for advice which has been used to inform the content and direction of subsequent articles.

However, I bow to the wisdom of the community and as I pointed out, I am happy for my byline to be removed not only from 6 and 7, but from 1-5 as well.

Dtom

Above is part of the response I got from the PM I sent yesterday. I think we should move the byline to the talk page with a message that dtom can always be contacted with questions about the current and future lessons of A beginner's guide. And I also think a link to the forum thread is appropriate.

--Qazaaq 08:43, 21 August 2007 (EDT)

Agreed. Personally, I'd like to encourage users to use the Talk page for questions that they have. Do you think you might suggest to dtom that he could check the Talk pages periodically for questions about the tutorials? That would be better than PMs because then others with the same question can see the answer on the Talk page.

I think we should write a "how to use the Wiki" guide. Explain things like tags, simple editing, how to go about finding things, where to ask questions, etc etc. I'll think about what we would need and maybe write something up this afternoon.

Dragoon Wraith TALK 12:09, 21 August 2007 (EDT)

Script

In referance to the script for the hand-holding on the two clue items in the cottage you put:

"Experienced scripter will throw their hands up at the clumsy nature of this bit of the script, but it gets the job done and I believe it is easier to follow the logic of why each line is added in this version.

Perhaps one of the greats will re-write this in a more concise form at some point."

Well I'm not by any means "one of the greats", only picked up the CS two weaks ago but I've been programing for many years and would like to offer a cleaner means too do this.

if (QObjCount < 2)

   if (Player.GetItemCount "BGPartialLetter" >= 1) && (HaveScroll == 0)

      set QObjCount to QobjCount + 1

      set HaveScroll to 1

      if (HaveAmulet == 0)

         MessageBox "I have found a torn document. I should continue to look for clues"

      endif

   endif



   if (Player.GetItemCount "BGEmbossedAmulet" >= 1) && (HaveAmulet == 0)

      set QObjCount to QobjCount + 1

      set HaveAmulet to 1

      if (HaveScroll == 0)

         MessageBox "I have found a strange amulet. I should continue to look for clues"

      endif

   endif



   if (QObjCount == 2)

      SetStage BGM001 50

   endif

endif

--Nathnem 15:47, 9 April 2008 (EDT)