Talk:Main Page/Archive 02

IRC Client Link on Main Page

I have created an IRC client for the teaching of the CS. I was wondering (if anyone knows how to) if anyone could create a link on the Main Page to the actual client. It means that anyone who is having trouble could contact a better modder vie the client instead of faffing about looking for the question to see if it has been answered. What do you think?
odd.bod

I think that Bethesda Softworks would not much like the idea of linking a 3rd party application from the main page. I think it's a great idea, and I definitely think that we can add links to it in the Wiki - starting with its own article in the Tools section.

I cannot add it to the Main Page, however, because there are certain rules about what can and cannot go there.

Thank you for your contribution!

Dragoon Wraith TALK 14:26, 11 January 2008 (EST)

The tools section is a good idea, as well as adding your IRC client to the troubleshooting category.

--Qazaaq 14:35, 11 January 2008 (EST)

Getting Troubleshooting Category Link on Main Page

Besides from splitting up the Troubleshooting Category in Subcategories, I think this Category itself is more important. A lot of mods could cause less trouble if only people would know more about what to avoid. Those things are not always obvious and often caused by a bug in the engine. So I suggest putting a Troubleshooting Category Link at the Main Page under the Scripting Category Link. --Scanner 21:09, 13 September 2007 (EDT)

I put it under the Scripting section, since I don't think Troubleshooting necessarily needs to be about scripting.

If you feel differently, let me know and we can discuss it.

Dragoon Wraith TALK 21:18, 13 September 2007 (EDT)

That's great. I think this will help a lot. Once Troubleshooting gets restructured into subsections, the most important could also be below the Troubleshooting link at the main page. For example "Avoiding CTDs/Crashes". --Scanner 03:09, 14 September 2007 (EDT)

Reorganize the ToC?

Very minor points to consider, but they would be a small step toward a big goal: is there any chance of getting the ToC reorganized? My main thoughts are:

1. Move the Links link to the bottom - that's generally the last thing you find in an index list.
2. That will make Getting Started the first entry - as it should be.
3. At the end of the ToC, after Scripting and its 5 sub categories, IMO the links should read:
   1. Categories
   2. Tutorials
   3. Current Questions
   4. Answered Questions
   5. Troubleshooting
   6. Glossary
   7. Links

From there, we can start following trails of info, making overall navigation much more user-friendly. See below for some other, more specific suggestions on how I believe the ToC should be formatted for maximum clarity and efficiency.
RedFault 10:29, 10 January 2008 (EST)

I'm going to do move the Links line, since I agree with that, and I'm going to change the bottom of the list as you suggest.

I'm not sure about the set-up below - I see what you're getting at, but I need to think about that one a little more. Feel free to mess with the layout here for now. I definitely want to change it, but I want to make sure it's done well.

My initial concerns are as follows:

• I don't want to lose the Community Portal link
• The Mod FAQ is a bit of a strange article on the Wiki, maintained as it is by one user alone. It's also primarily for mod users, rather than mod makers. I have to think about that.
• I completely agree with the rest of it.

Anyway, feel free to address any of these points.

Dragoon Wraith TALK 01:46, 11 January 2008 (EST)

I thought the Community Portal link might catch your attention! XD

The reason I didn't even bat an eye suggesting that you take the CP link out is because it is always present, on every page, in the left sidebar. Moreover, from the Main Page, there is a visible link in the Welcome section, and another in the News section. So if, like me, you've Favorited the Main Page, then every time you come to the CS Wiki, you can immediately see 3 links to the CP.

I would venture the opinion that any link included in the Nav Menu on the far left need not be repeated in the Main Page ToC. That, of course, is your call to make. My overall goal is to have the ToC subcategories match up with the links you find on the first page of the main categories (as I'm sure you noticed). It's pretty obvious in the BSF that organization is the wiki's main problem, not content or quality.

As for the FAQ, I do agree that its uses are dubious, at best, but I do have a plan: let's fix it. FAQ's are usually one of the first places I visit when I'm learning about something new. This one should be made useful, and I have some plans to take care of that already. That would be a great place to discuss some of the topics covered in our (hopefully) dying Questions section, wouldn't it? It would also be a good place to warn potential modders of some of the common pitfalls associated with scripting, distributing mods, cleaning mods, etc.

--RedFault 09:03, 11 January 2008 (EST)

You bring up a good point about the ubiquity of the Community Portal link, but there's a reason for that - far too few users even know that it is there! This is a major problem on the Wiki, in my opinion, and one I want to fix. I don't know that including it in the ToC is the best way to do that (to be sure, it hasn't done much in the time it has been there), but removing that link certainly isn't going to help.

I'm not really against removing the link, as long as we do something to promote the use of the Community Portal.

As for the FAQ, changing it could be... difficult. That article is, really, simply a more-frequently-updated version of the FAQ on the Modding forums. As such, there is a certain degree of parallel between them. Also, frankly, considering how much work dev_akm has put into the FAQ, I would be hesitant to claim to be "fixing" it.

A modding FAQ, in a separate article, as opposed to a mod using FAQ that we already have, is, I think, the best solution.

If you are interested in working on this, I strongly recommend talking to dev_akm on the official forums.

Awesome work you're doing, by the way!

Dragoon Wraith TALK 14:18, 11 January 2008 (EST)

(Responding to above) I immediately agree that a second FAQ, for mod-building specifically, is the proper solution. I hope no one misconstrues what I said about "fixing" it, either. I didn't mean that there was anything wrong with it - it was one of the first articles I read, and it's helpful for what it is. What I did mean, and what you've suggested, is that we make it more appropriate for the space it occupies in the ToC - i.e. we make it about Getting Started with modding. I will almost certainly contact dev_akm soon about working on this myself. Right at this moment, I need another project like I need a hole in my head. XD
--RedFault 15:16, 11 January 2008 (EST)

Suggested Format of the Getting Started Section

Instead of reading:

Getting Started

1. Community Portal
2. About Modding Etiquette
3. My First Dungeon
4. Basic Landscaping Tutorial

Could this section read:

Getting Started

1. Oblivion Mods FAQ
2. About Modding Etiquette
3. A Beginner's Guide
4. Troubleshooting

--RedFault 17:11, 10 January 2008 (EST)

Suggested Format of the Data Files Section

I would leave Data Files as is.

--RedFault 11:09, 11 January 2008 (EST)

Suggested Format of the Main Menus Section

I would leave Main Menus as is.

--RedFault 11:09, 11 January 2008 (EST)

Suggested Format of the Building and Editing Section

I recommend that the Building and Editing Section should read:

Building and Editing

1. Main Editing Windows
2. Basic NPC Creation Tutorial
3. My First Dungeon
4. My First Shop
5. Basic Landscaping Tutorial
6. Quest Design
   

--RedFault 11:09, 11 January 2008 (EST)

Suggested Format of the Objects Section

I would leave Objects as is.

--RedFault 14:06, 11 January 2008 (EST)

Suggested Format of the Actor Behavior Section

I recommend that the Actor Behavior Section should read:

Actor Behavior

1. AI Settings
2. Packages
3. Combat Style
4. Dialogue
5. Detection
6. Pathing and Playtesting
   

--RedFault 15:07, 11 January 2008 (EST)

Suggested Format of the Quests Section

I recommend that the Quests Section should read:

Quests

1. Quest Design
2. Dialogue
3. Journals & Stages
4. Quest Targets
5. Results

--RedFault 12:13, 14 January 2008 (EST)

Suggested Format of the Gameplay Section

I recommend removing the Gameplay section from the ToC. This information is not general enough to be stored in the Main Page, and should be accessible via a more general Portal.

--RedFault 12:20, 14 January 2008 (EST)

Suggested Format of the Scripting Section

I recommend that the Scipting Section should read:

Scripting

1. Complete List of Functions
2. Commands
3. Variables
4. Using "If" Conditions
5. Code Optimization
6. Useful Code

--RedFault 11:10, 15 January 2008 (EST)

Complete Listing of Suggested ToC

To see what the complete ToC would look like according to my suggestions, see the full layout in the Community Portal.

--RedFault 11:10, 15 January 2008 (EST)